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THE O'REILLY FACTOR (20:21)

June 17, 2002 Monday

Interview With Joel Mowbray

O'REILLY: In the "Impact" segment tonight, did you know that three of the 9/11 killers entered the United States on valid visas obtained through a Saudi travel agent? And did you know that nothing has changed over there, that just about any Saudi citizen can come to America at any time?

Joining us now from Washington is Joel Mowbray, the -- a reporter for "The National Review" magazine, which broke the story. Now, according to "The Bergen Record," 15 of the 19 September 11 hijackers got their visas through the U.S. consulate in Jedda, Saudi Arabia. Is that true?

JOEL MOWBRAY, "NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, actually between Jedda and Riyadh, where the embassy is.

O'REILLY: OK. And they haven't tightened up one bit in the USA? They're still letting it go on?

MOWBRAY: The problem is that the bureaucrats who run the show at the State Department, they go native, they go local, they take up the interests of the country that they think they represent.

And Consular Affairs is filled with career appointments. There are no political people. I know people say, Well, a bureaucrat's a bureaucrat. But political people, at least, respond to political pressure. The career people say, Try and fire me. And...

O'REILLY: All right, but look, this is so egregious. You know, we were pounding Canada last week on their lenient immigration policies, and we're going to have the Canadian ambassador on later on in the week. But this is so outrageous, because 15 out of the 19 came here on visas from Saudi Arabia.

And you're saying in "The National Review" that just about anybody can get a visa in Saudi Arabia and come here. Right?

MOWBRAY: Absolutely. The -- what they do is, they take a two-page form and a photo, and they submit that to a travel agent. Now, the travel agent sends it on to the consulate or the embassy. But what we've done is, we've deputized private Saudi travel agents to handle the first step in the visa screening process.

And that, you know, adds an extra layer for mischief or abuse or fraud.

O'REILLY: So do the U.S. officials over in Riyadh and Jedda, did they vet the people who want to get into this country? Did they investigate them?

MOWBRAY: Most of the people who -- most of the Saudis who come here will never come into contact with a U.S. citizen until they step off the airplane and onto American soil.

O'REILLY: So it's mailed to them.

MOWBRAY: It's mailed to them, yes.

O'REILLY: The visa is mailed to them.

MOWBRAY: The person who implemented the visa express program at the Riyadh embassy is a guy named Thomas Fury. He was the diplomat there. His expression that he's known for throughout Consular Affairs is, People got to have their visas.

O'REILLY: So he's an easy touch.

MOWBRAY: Easy touch.

O'REILLY: Now, surely, and after reading your article, the State Department now knows this. What's their reaction?

MOWBRAY: I've gotten a lot of very encouraging phone calls from people at the State Department, the good guys, not people from Consular Affairs, and also on Capitol Hill, the judiciary Committee and the International Relations Committee and even Dan Burton's committee are all looking into the possibility of holding hearings. They said they want to see buzz first.

O'REILLY: Buzz?

MOWBRAY: They want to see buzz, they want to see people wanting some change, some reform of Consular Affairs generally, as well as visa express.

O'REILLY: You know, it's just -- it's the same thing with Canada and Mexico, it -- there's something wrong in the federal government, maybe you can tell me what it is, Mr. Mowbray, that no matter what you do and how you show how all of us, you, me, and everyone watching are put in danger by these lax security visa things, they don't do anything about it. What, what is that?

MOWBRAY: The greatest force in government is inertia. And the one statement that stuck out to me, there was a Consular Affairs official who was kind of my Deep Throat at Consular Affairs that helped me write this story and get me the information that had not been reported anywhere, is that he said that things have not changed since 9/11, that the people at Consular Affairs, including in the field offices, in the consulates, they are acting as if the Twin Towers were still standing.

O'REILLY: So 15 of the 19 hijackers come from Saudi Arabia, got legitimate visas to come, some overstayed those visas, but they all got in here by a process that you say has not been tightened up at all.

MOWBRAY: Hasn't been tightened. And in fact, Consular Affairs, there was a brief spate of stories, December, January, one-page stories, things like that, on visa express and the exact reaction was, and I quote, "We'll weather the storm, ride this out, the criticism will die down."

And it did.

O'REILLY: The be -- and when you say visa express, that means exactly what?

MOWBRAY: That means the program where in Saudi Arabia you don't have to be a Saudi citizen. You can just be someone living in Saudi Arabia where you submit a short form and a photo to a travel agent and then they send it on to the consulate or the embassy for you.

O'REILLY: And then you get a visa under their passport number, so you're in Saudi Arabia visiting from Oman, you still get the visa under the -- your own passport.

MOWBRAY: Well, you have to be living in Saudi Arabia. But that's still...

O'REILLY: But it doesn't matter what...

MOWBRAY: ... you apply for (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

O'REILLY: ... passport you hold, you could be from anywhere.

MOWBRAY: Right, absolutely.

O'REILLY: All right, Mr. Mowbray, thanks very much for the information, and, you know, we can't make the government be responsible. That's what, you know, it's almost frustrating to report these stories, because we report them and report them and report them, nothing's done, you just can't make them be responsible.

MOWBRAY: Well, hopefully we can pressure them.

O'REILLY: Maybe.

MOWBRAY: Hopefully we can pressure them.

O'REILLY: We'll see.