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March 15, 2007
Greenspan: Professional Wages Too High, We Need More Immigration Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan said allowing more skilled [FAIR comment: Notable is that Greenspan is now making explicit what was implicit in his remarks years ago that immigration would help slow wage inflation - immigration lowers wages. Also, Greenspan's remarks are similar to those made by economist Dean Baker with the liberal Center for Economic and Policy Research.] Comments
Dementia setting in, Alan? There are 46 million people, 16% of the population, uninsured in this nation! It is not only the poor who are unable to meet the demands of paying at least 260% more than they are charged medically because we are paying for those who are illegally in this nation, who skip out on their medical bills. Most manufacturing jobs have disappeared, and those that remain are shutting down that avenue as a way for American citizens to make money by eliminating hundreds of thousands of positions, which will devastate those communities. About 13.4% of native born residents are uninsured, while 17.9% of naturalized citizens and 43.6% of non-citiens. About 32.7% of Hispanics are uninsured, 29.9% of American Indians and Alaska Natives, 19.6% of blacks, 17.9% of Asians and 15% of whites. 24.4% of those in households earning less than $25,000 are uninsured. Among households earning $25,000 to $49,999, 20.6% are uninsured. 14% of households with incomes of $50,000 to $74,999 are uninsured as are 8.5% of households earning $75,000 or more. Of the uninsured ages 18 to 64, 72% worked full or part time during the year according to the US Census Bureau. There is a decline of employers offering benefits to their employees and only about 61% of companies offer health insurance which is down from about 69% in 2000. This is just one aspect to look at what is happening to US citizens. Greenspan is not going to be affected by his "suggestion" to screw over US citizens in favor of others. He is a lackey for some liberal agenda and to him I say ---- ---! I am so very sick of the idea of legal and illegal immigrants being the only solution to whatever someone says is wrong with this country. The solution lies in those who were born here, who are not being treated fairly in this situation--I am talking about US citizens and we need to mobilize before we are all treated like we are nothing but a passel of idiots. Oh, guess I forgot--that is how we are being treated! Posted by: jaded on March 15, 2007 11:21 AM HOW COME THE REST OF THE WORLD BASICALLY USES PROTECTIONISM AND IF AMERICA DOES ITS EVIL? I believe America has been bought off to the highest bidder. The examples are numerous and I'm sure Mr. Greenspan is aware of them. I'll name a few, automobiles are a great example. Go to this website: Now, type in "Toyota Camry" and look at the data. Next type in "Chevrolet Malibu" and look at the data. Both these mid-range cars compete against each, other but its clear from Kelly Blue Book figures and Expert/User Quality ratings the American (vs. the Japanese) car is far cheaper used (like 1/2 the price) and its quality ratings are better too. Interesting results and the Globalist Elites (like Greenspan) keep quiet about it, don't they. God forbid we say something nice about American cars vs Japanese, that would be protectionism. God forbid we say anything that justifies our American professional pay levels. I was at a supermarket yesterday and milk was $1.99 a gallon, but a different dairy was selling milk for $2.49 a gallon. I got the checkout girl laughing her head off with this comment, "I bet the the $2.49 milk was made by cheap illegal alien slaves and the $1.99 milk was made by higher paid American Union Workers. Pathetic!!!! Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 15, 2007 11:48 AM I read a biography of Alan Greenspan entitled "Maestro" by Bob Woodward. According to Woodward, Greenspan liked to relax at home by doing mathematical problems on his calculator. Wow this is a guy who is in touch with the mainstream. Mr. Greenspan pumped so much liquidity into the market to create the tech bubble and now the housing bubble. Both Greenspan and Bernanke have vastly increased the money supply, that the m3 is no longer calculated, so no one is quite sure about the amount of money in circulation. What was the official reason they gave for pulling the m3? To save money! Hahahaha, yeah right. The government steals your saved money through inflation, which is mainly caused by increasing the money supply. While money was originally backed by gold, now it is estimated that only 2 or 3 cents from every dollar is backed by gold. Grenspan is a fraud just like the rest of them. I think Angus Macleod wanted to invite the government to his own special barbeque, when I think of what I'd like to see happen to our govt. the movie "Hostel" comes to mind. Posted by: Terri on March 15, 2007 12:02 PM These statements by Greenspan come just one week after Bill Gates appeared before the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions committee and testified that the U.S. needs an “infinite” number of H-1B visas for foreign professional workers and more employment-based green cards in order to stay “competitive”. No other witnesses were allowed to speak. Of course, “competitive” is just a corporate code word for “cheap labor”. Greenspan’s remarks are just part of an orchestrated spin campaign to convince the public that the U.S. needs to drastically raise the number of H-1B visas and green cards as part of the so-called Comprehensive Immigration Reform. Greenspan, Gates and other elitist hypocrites love to lecture us (middle class) citizens about how far out of line our standard of living is with that of the rest of the world, while they completely avoid any mention of the outlandishly lavish lifestyles enjoyed by the ultra-wealthy executives, Wall Street executives, and international financiers who profit from mass immigration, so-called "Free Trade" and the exploitation of offshore labor. Posted by: Steph on March 15, 2007 12:13 PM Anybody that believes geenspan is something special has not read his remarks before he was appointed to screw our brains out Posted by: jmac on March 15, 2007 12:32 PM This has to be the most stupid, brazen anti-American worker logic ever issued by a person in a position of government responsibilty. What Greenspan says is true; importing more skilled workers will lower the gap between income a fraction. But the income gap between rich and poor is not driven by skilled workers, it is driven by Wall Street financiers profiting from low wage workers, and from those with advanced degrees, MBAs, lawyers and doctors getting richer. The blue collar workers have not had a real wage increase in twenty years, caused by Greenspan's libertarian free market and immigration policies, and now he blames those who have suffered the most for creating the problem!!! This is chutzpah beyond belief. It is the murderer asking for mercy after he killed his parents because he is an orphan. It is Greenspan's profligate financial and trade policies that have cause this mess, and now he wants to punish the victims more by blaming the crimes on them. When we see gross figures, all we see is the economy is doing swell, but every blue collar and white collar worker in America knows that this is a lie. How do you say OUTRAGEOUS!!! The good thing about the comments, is that it makes absolutely clear that Greenspan and the Wall Street and government crowd he represents have absolutely no concern for American workers what soever. The end purpose of Bush, Greenspan, the Fed's trade and immgration policy is to return the United States into the Confederacy, where there is a thin crust of very wealthy, an impoverished middle-class and a vast army of serfs at near-slave wages. Paul Streitz Posted by: Paul Streitz on March 15, 2007 12:37 PM This is what our government has been doing to computer science majors since Bush has taken office. In June 2001 the starting salary for new computer science grads (from NACE) was $52,473 and by 2006 declined to $51,305. This is a decline of about 2% in 5 years and adjusting for inflation more like a 15 to 20% decline. This can be traced to the massive H-1B flood that is occurring under Bush -- and much larger than what the press has been reporting. Not surprisingly, this has busted computer science enrollment. 2001 salary info: Posted by: Richard A on March 15, 2007 12:47 PM We need to import more cheap CEO's. That's the solution. Maybe even a Federal Reserve Chairman or 2. We could probably get 2 for less than we pay Benny Bernake. Tony Blair will be looking for a new job soon. Let's hire him as President. Posted by: Kerthialfad on March 15, 2007 01:56 PM Columnist Bill Fleckenstein called Greenspan the most incompetent Fed Chairman in U.S. history. If Mr. Greenspan wanted to limit inflation, he should have stopped bailing out money center banks from their gambling customers, tightened margin requirements and refrained from slashing interest rates on the short end of the curve. Then we would not have the moral hazard and housing bubble, and perhaps looming commodity inflation bonanza that many smart Wall Street insiders expect. Greenspan's background was in music (hence the maestro moniker), but his economics background was practical and non-rigorous in nature. No surprise that many hedge fund managers and sell-side analysts I've known privately shake their heads and say he's a blubbering idiot. At least now Greenspan admits that immigration is a policy to drive down wages, at least. Posted by: Concerned Citizen on March 15, 2007 02:26 PM Greenspan was not good for the country when he was Fed chairman and he sure is not good for the country saying stupid things like this. The old man has lost it completely. Posted by: Beckyal on March 15, 2007 02:38 PM This story is getting quite a bit of exposure on the internet, so I took off early from work today because I have some insights to share and I don’t want my employer to track my activities on the corporate web server. I am glad to see that some are waking up to the dangers of H1b but there is more to tell. I have over 10 years experience in corporate Human Resources operations and recruiting agencies. The fraud and abuse I’ve seen related to H1b visas and employment based EB green cards could fill a book. Companies large medium and small routinely use both these to defraud American professional workers out of jobs and even out of their careers. To begin with, the H1b visa laws clearly state that it’s OK under federal law for an employer to fire an American worker and replace with an H1b worker, and that an H1b worker can be hired for an open position even if there’s a qualified American ready and willing to do the job. The EB green card programs are just as bad as the H1b and the abuses there get even less publicity. The law requires employers who wish to sponsor a foreigner for a green card to first conduct a labor market test to see if any Americans are available. They have to advertise the position publicly and show the government that they tried to find an American before sponsoring a foreign worker for a green card. Employers get around this requirement by in one of two ways. In the first case, the employer already knows which foreign worker they want to sponsor, so they simply run ads for the position and then reject altogether the resumes from Americans and simply sponsor the foreigner at a lower wage than what a natural market wage would be. The foreigner sponsored is often an H1b worker who is already working at the company at a below market wage. They then file a form attesting to the government that no qualified American answered the ad. In the second type of case the employer does not currently have a foreign candidate to sponsor, they engage the services of a recruiting agency to find and screen qualified American and foreign candidates with no intention of actually hiring any American. The pre-screened and qualified American candidates are often actually interviewed by the employers just to convince the government that an attempt was made to find an American. The American candidates are rejected as being either less qualified than the foreigners or a bad cultural fit, and the company files an attestation to that same effect with the government. Any foreigners sponsored for green cards will gladly take 50% less pay than Americans would just to get a chance at that legal permanent residence that they want so badly. Often the agencies are in on the scam and get a cut of the labor cost savings, in addition to whatever their normal commission would be. When it comes to EB green cards, American professional workers just can't trust recruiting agencies any more than they can trust the actual employers. Everything I’ve told you about is very common in the high tech industries, and it is happening more and more to American accounting, finance, and marketing professionals also. HR professionals are told to keep quiet about all this or lose their jobs and careers altogether. If the suggestions of Greenspan become actuality, there will not only be wage suppression, but many current white collar workers will be driven out of their chosen professions entirely and the professional ranks will be closed to most American college grads now and in the future. Posted by: JMS on March 15, 2007 03:19 PM 10-4 CONCERNED CITIZEN, I'D ADD TOO Greenspan has lost touch. Hasn't that numbskull read the news lately? The stock market is crashing because massive mortgages were IDIOTICALLY given to America's generally inadequate first-time buyer household incomes [many of these are professionals], they call that subprime loans. Imagine what the American stock market and the subsequent housing crash will do if Greenspan lowers all the professional pay? I'm not an economist, but it doesn't take a Economic degree to figure this "no-brainer" one out, just some good old fashion American Common Sense. See my proof from a REAL common sense economist: http://www.rgemonitor.com/blog/roubini Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 15, 2007 04:04 PM AND THE NUMBSKULL JUST STATED A COUPLE HRS AGO THAT NOT ONLY DOES HE WANT LOWER PROFESSIONAL PAY, BUT EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE IF HOMES GO UP 10% IN PRICE What is he smoking? Read it, I didn't make this up: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070315/bs_nm/usa_economy_greenspan_dc Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 15, 2007 04:18 PM HERE'S THE LINK I THOUGHT I COPIED AND PASTED, BUT SUDDENLY GOT CHANGED BY YAHOO [PROBABLY FLABBER GASTED THEM TOO] http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_bi_ge/greenspan_2;_ylt=Ar_n6wEHB76VcosUUbLsSrmb.HQA This is where he says, if homes go up 10%, everything will be fine..... Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 15, 2007 04:27 PM
“The United States provides 65,000 temporary H-1B visas each year to make up this shortfall — not nearly enough to fill open technical positions.”[How to Keep America Competitive February 25, 2007] In the wake of Mr. Gates’ one-man Congressional testimony staged by Teddy Kennedy, hundreds of news organizations published this 65,000 figure for the number of H-1B visas. Unfortunately, the 65,000 it is simply wrong. According to the latest figures from United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), the number of new H-1B visas approved has been: FY 2002: 103,584 (Before the “cut”) During the promotion of the SKIL BILL in 2006, industry lobbyists and politicians claimed the legislation would increase the number of H-1B visas from 65,000 to 115,000. Just this week Investors Business Daily laments Congress’s failure to pass that legislation and gives those same bogus figures.[Brain Barrier March 9, 2007] As you can see, the actual visa numbers are not in accord with the claim that the SKIL BILL would increase H-1B visas TO 115,000 a year. USCIS contributed to this deception (and continues to do so). After the law governing the limits on H-1B visas changed in 2004, USCIS kept the number of H-1B visas being approved under wraps. While the law requires USCIS to produce an annual report on the H-1B program, it waited until November 2006 to do so for 2004 and 2005. Adding to the confusion, USCIS appears to have only produced hard copies of the report distributed to Congress and did not post the report to its web site. The only versions of the report available to the public are those that have been scanned in by Congressional staff members. Posted by: John Miano on March 15, 2007 05:19 PM They are twisting everything to fit their Illegal agenda....no matter what the facts they will twist it to say we need more -there is no getting around their agenda...They want more slaves!!! Posted by: mary on March 15, 2007 05:50 PM We are constantly being assured by the open borders lobby that increasing labor supply has zero effect on wages. At least he admits what's in every economics textbook. However, to promote the goal of making modestly successful Americans poorer to decrease wage inequality reminds me of the also perverse argument that the way to fix a Social Security gap is to flood that system with lowly taxed immigrants. Uh, Al, making our successful citizens poorer means they will generate less tax revenues which means the social welfare programs the poor (and not so poor) depend on will come under strain. Somehow I think the clawing over a shrinking pie will be a lot worse for 'easing tensions' than any marginal change in wage inequality. But I'm sure you already know that and simply like cheaper labor for its benefits for corporations. Please don't try to convince us Americans being poorer is good for us and an ebbing tide lifts boats. Nobody is that stupid but I guess you think so. Posted by: Amanda on March 15, 2007 11:27 PM Imagine how our veterans will feel when they are told that they're overpaid and that Congress intends to issue visas to foreigners who will replace them in their civilian life. And even if their not replaced, their wages will be diminished through competition with people who will take much lower wages just to get their feet on U.S. soil. Our veterans, who have sacrificed much financially for this country in recent wars will have to compete with outsiders who have sacrificed nothing. Posted by: Horace on March 16, 2007 07:19 AM I am H-1b. I work at data center for credit card corp. I access database for past due account. I see most data records have american people names. Maybe some of you are there. Stop whining about immigrants and start paying you bills on time. Posted by: Leung on March 16, 2007 09:15 AM So this, then, is the solution of this "great genius": Ease the tension between the haves and have-nots by simply making most everyone a "have-not". Slave labor effectively did this to many--if not most--poor whites in the South and slave labor (aka "guestworkers") can and will do it again. Posted by: J on March 16, 2007 09:32 AM
Go to the link http://www.boston.com/news/necn/New_England/ . Click on the lower left picture of a woman, over the caption "debate rages over immigration raid." Posted by: mary on March 16, 2007 10:23 AM I was forced out of the tech industry when the sellout Congress tripled the H1-B visas for a three year period from 2000-2003. I got a real estate license and I have been selling in the residential market but now that business is in danger too, in no small part due to falling wages brought on by too much immigration and so many layoffs due to outsourcing. I have told my high school age son and daughter to avoid high tech like the plague and try for a career that is more resistant to globalism and the tricks of the sellout Congress. Since globalism affects practically every middle class career, I'm not sure how my kids will survive. I watched the C-SPAN rebroadcast in horror last week as Gates spoke about the need for ‘infinite’ H1-Bs in front of Teddy Kennedy who kissed up to him. Ted Kennedy's inabilty and unwillingness to appreciate the achievements of American engineers literally rises to epic proportions. Did you know he turned down an invitation to watch the Apollo 11 launch in 1969? A launch to the moon, the greatest achievement of all time, accomplished by American engineers as a response to Ted's brother JFK's challenge to land a man on the moon and return him safely to Earth before the end of the 1960s? You'd think as the surviving representative of the Kennedy family, he'd attend as a 'thank you/thumbs up' to those who worked so hard, and risked or gave their lives in this pursuit of his late brother's goals. But no, Ted had 'more important things to do' that week. You see, that's the week the Kennedy's always go yachting, you working people just wouldn’t understand how important that is, to such important people like the Kennedys. Sadly, the party at Chapaquiddick after the yachting didn’t go well, Ted's car went off a bridge. You ordinary people would call the police to rescue the girl trapped in the car, but again, Ted 'had more important things to do' Calling the police had to wait until morning. How sad that the girl suffocated, how unfortunate that Ted ‘didn’t have time’ to call for a rescue. And this is the guy who along with buddies Gates and Greenspan stands in judgment of you American engineers and other professional workers now, there's 'no need' to hear your testimony at that hearing with Bill Gates as the only witness. Ted has 'more important things to do' than listen to little people like you. As bizarre as the above is to read, every word of it is true. Please tell your reps and Senators what you think of it. And please tell your neighbors, family members and every American you know that the ladders of upward mobility are being wiped out and middle class jobs given to low wage third-worlders all in the name of ‘being competitive’. Posted by: Worried Parent on March 16, 2007 11:07 AM Americans better start pounding on every politicians door and make sure they know our feelings and if they vote for amnesty we have to vote them out no matter what party you support Posted by: jmac on March 16, 2007 11:16 AM Thank you Alan, for exposing the real agenda of the globalists. Few other economists would have made such a bold and impolotic commentary that would give us the true sense of where our president is leading us. Posted by: George on March 16, 2007 12:19 PM Greenspan is right. White collar workers in this country have had it far too easy for far too long. They underproduce and are overpaid and complacent too. More competition is in order. That means more visas and green cards. All that’s needed now is for Congress to get a bill done and seal the deal. Greenspan is a brilliant economist who did a masterful job in handling the economy during the boom years of the 90s and the recession that came about after 911. It’s too bad you knuckleheaded nativists can’t see him for the genius he is. Posted by: Purpose Driven Exec on March 16, 2007 02:09 PM HI WORRIED PARENT, ITS SOFTWARENGINEER FROM SEATTLE I too have a daughter going into the workforce soon and we're making plans for her education direction(s) after high school, in this era of outsourcing and imminent recession(s). Its ironic, not only Bill Gates, but there's a lot of folks I know without college degrees [I have two engineering degrees] that are apparently sucessful and making money anyway. My simple advice now-a-days, keep you and your child out of debt. Don't borrow money for a college loan with no for sure job afterwards. Let your kid go to school, but if you/he/she can't pay for it with cash as you go, put it off. Have your child work and save money at home, that's probably the best education you can give a kid anyway, the power of compound interest on a principle when you start young. Besides, getting junior out of the house on their own is realistic and affordable if they have $30-50K to start out. Then they can get an apartment, car, fix their teeth, etc and if they're savy, manage to accumulate more principle. After 5-10 years or so, they may have enough for purchasing a condo later in life too. When the two of you can afford cash for more after high school schooling, then make the move. Personally, I would not let the kid leave the job market [ever], try evening school and a job; or P/T job with P/T school. As a concerned parent, go to monster.com and check out the HORRIFYING TRUTH. Search for jobs in your city with any degree and no experience. I find no jobs like that in Seattle lately. Get your kid(s) in the job market ASAP and try to keep them there, heck, even at Jack 'n the Box or McDonalds, a manager can work their way up to about $20+/hr from a minimum wage cleaner at the start. Be pragmatic and realistic in this New World Order and remember, no one will really take care of your children except you and your children. Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 16, 2007 02:44 PM Purpose Driven executive, we know you are personally profitting from illegal immigration of some type. All you cheerleaders of lawlessness are for insourcing oursourcing and, in general, selling off America. What evil did this to you? Posted by: Bobby on March 16, 2007 03:58 PM I JUST SENT HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI THIS LETTER (SHE JUST ASKED ME FOR GLOBAL WARMING DISCUSSION INPUT) Subject: Global Warming Input to Our House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi (She asked me for input) You can input too as FAIRUS.ORG bloggers: http://www.dccc.org/action_center/petitions/stop_global_warming HAPPY FRIDAY!!!! Posted by: Softwarengineer on March 16, 2007 05:04 PM Hye Leung-GO back where you came from...We don't want you here...got it?? Posted by: mary on March 16, 2007 05:05 PM Dear "Purpose Driven Exec": By reading what you have driven, I feel relatively certain that YOU are allowed to continue in your position without threat and that while you, too, are "complacent" (as all human beings are when supplies of anything have been readily available for a long period of time), you fail to perceive yourself as such. I know that as an educator I am far more complacent than my peers in Africa, for instance. However, I certainly see and agree with much of what you say. I smile as I remember Dan Akroyd's line in Ghostbuster II where, having been reduced as a ghostbuster to playing to children's birthday parties and finding those children to be "complacent" and "unappreciative", he refers to them as "ungrateful yuppie larvae". Ha! My experience has been that it is NOT the "ungrateful yuppies" or their "larvae" who are getting displaced by these imported workers but, instead, the lower-end white collar workers who, like my husband who creates software, work far more than 40 hours a week and even log on as soon as they come home in order to remain "on top of things". And, having taught these students from India and Asia, I can assure you of one thing: they may work mightily at lower wages for the first or even second generation but by the third generation, they become, quite often, just as complacent as the rest of America. If this is true (and, in my experience, it is) then we are all truly products of the environment and can only be blamed just so much. It does not seem to make sense to import what will most certainly become just as troublesome as what it displaced and, in doing so, add to our overpopulation and the problems proceeding from it for the sake of two generations of eager workers for the profits of the corporate elite. Posted by: J on March 16, 2007 05:35 PM Greenspan esta loco in la cabeza... Posted by: takn on March 16, 2007 11:41 PM Leung, Of course most of your data records have American names -- this is the United States of America. While there are deadbeats of all nationalities, many of your clients who don't pay their bills are probably unemployed or under-employed due to outsourcing, illegal immigration, H-1b visas, and so on. And, in the USA, we still have the right to be "whining" about whatever we want -- it's called "freedom of speech". If you don't like it, you are free to leave. Posted by: Deb on March 17, 2007 01:54 AM
We are headed into an economic collapse, precipitated by the very policies that Greenspan ut into place as head of the fed. Wages will plummet due to the incompetence of the federal government. There is no need to further depress wages by flooding the labor supply. All that will do is to cause unemployment to skyrocket. Even in the skilled professions. Posted by: lance sjogren on March 17, 2007 01:21 PM Can you say Senile/Elitist Traitor! it works for me!
Posted by: Critter on March 19, 2007 05:59 AM Perhaps Mr. G will be giving back some of his wages. . . Posted by: Bill Dexter on March 19, 2007 08:13 AM Worried Parent, I think Softwarengineer gave you excellent advice. A good book on the subject of having control over your own destiny vs. throwing your money away on mere perceptions of value is The Millionaire Next Door. Posted by: Concerned Citizen on March 19, 2007 08:13 AM Alan Greenspan is right! There is a desperate need for more employment based visas such as the H1-B. America can only benefit by importing the best and brightest from all over the globe...though 40% of H1-Bs come from India. India has BRAINPOWER to spare! All you WHINERS should consider updating your job skills. You may wish to start with an ATTITUDE CHANGE as no one wants to be around you WHINERS all day long! If an H1-B "takes" the job of a fat, lazy, overpaid, underproducing "American" ( you are ALL came from immigrants too), then thats because you are not as qualified as an H1-B! Are we to believe WHINERS like those on this blog or a world renowned economist like Alan Greenspan? STOP WHINING ALREADY! Posted by: Raj on March 19, 2007 10:27 AM Sorry Raj but the India hype is very overblown. I've been there and it is one of the worst sh*tholes I've ever seen. I've also worked on a few outsourcing projects in the US and the coding effort by Indians were incompetent and most of it had to be redone by Americans. So stuff your BS up your ass. Any country that has the vast majority of its people desperately poor and allows massive corruption is truly f*cked up. Posted by: KA on March 19, 2007 08:20 PM |