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November 29, 2006
H-1B Workers Mad, Demand Same Treatment As Illegal Aliens "Following all the rules, Indian national Sanjay Mehta came to the [FAIR comment: Kapoor's comment indicates that he does not realize the intent of the H-1B system, which is not to encourage people to come here permanently, but to bring them here as quasi-indentured workers beholden to their employers.] Comments
"Following all the rules, Indian national Sanjay Mehta came to the United States on a temporary work visa in 1997..." If Mr Mehta is "following ALL the rules"...when is he GOING HOME??? WHAT PART OF TEMPORARY IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND??? Posted by: R.J. on November 29, 2006 11:36 AM All H-1b workers need to go back home.We did fine before they came here and we will be better off if they stop coming. Posted by: Fornax2 on November 29, 2006 12:09 PM Sanja Metha's best option is to return home to India, where he's free to apply his experience. American tech workers, incidentally, do not have a reciprocal program in India, where one needs to be of Indian origin to immigrate. Politically, Americans have a tough, tough time getting assigned to offices in the Pacific Rim and India, by the way. In fact, an Indian national once blocked my relocation to an East Asian office because, I was quietly told, it was "too sensitive to have an American do a job that a local could do." Later, a Japanese-American who worked for a US company abroad told me I couldn't work there because "I couldn't say this in the States, but we want a local face." US multinationals I've worked for preferred to hire cheap, politically correct locals, even though my language and cultural skills would have helped the companies immensely. Discrimination? Yes. Does it happen against Americans all the time? Yes. Abroad? Yes. In the United States, too? Yes. So, where do skilled US workers go, then? Since Americans invented the light bulb, the telephone, the movie camera and the computer, one would think it's stupid to hire non-Americans on H1-B visas on the cheap when the profit leaders of the future will need to innovate, but such is the state of both business politics and elite incompetence today. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 12:14 PM All H-1B workers need to go back home. We did fine before they came here. Posted by: Fornax2 on November 29, 2006 12:16 PM This is no shortage of American Tech Workers or a lack of skills in America. All the H1-B Visa does is allow American companies to screw over Americans by paying someone from India a far lower wage. Why our Government is not protecting our jobs is beyond me as it decreases the amount of taxes we pay into the system. Brian. Posted by: Brian on November 29, 2006 12:55 PM Indian national Sanja Metha should look into the religious tradition of Hinduism for answers to the "frustrating" situation, whereby H1-B visa holders from India have "lives in limbo." According to the practices and beliefs of karma yoga, by performing earthly duties in a dedicated but mentally detached way, one can achieve "perfect unselfishness" and free oneself from the slavery of mental anxiety. According to the Mahabharata epic's defining Bhagavad Gita text, a good Hindu must follow this work ethic: "Do your duty, always, but without attachment. That is how a man reaches the ultimate truth; by working without anxiety about results." So, when an H1-B term is up, one could simply follow the law, and one's life path, and go home. Simple, no anxiety. Additionally, a good Hindu might combine this ethic with the ethos of bhakti yoga, offering the results of every action to God. For example, offer the action of "taking life-giving jobs from Americans and then fighting against the laws of another's country in order to perpetuate a selfish desire to continue to take." How would this offering be received by Shiva, Vishnu or Shakti? Having read the Rig Veda, the Bhagavad Gita, and other examples of Hindu scripture, as well as having met Indians who have a strong set of values, I'm certain there is morality and ethics in Indian culture, despite the manueverings and selfishness of those Indian H1-B visa holders who want to abuse our system in an unethical and immoral way. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 12:59 PM Sometimes I really, really wish all the non-sense policies restrictionists, xenophobics and racists advocate would come true just to make them see how absurd they are. Kill the H1-B program, close the borders to everyone, including tourists, students, diplomats, everyone. Deport everyone who was born abroad and so called "anchor babies". Let's live like hermits and let all the foreign talent go to other countries, let another country become the super power. Let's outsource all the jobs immigrants do here so that they will contribute their labor and income to other countries. Let's live in isolation and be intolerant forever... but then I would advocate to have all these laws be taken retroactively, two or three generations, then we'll just have the Native Americans and a few Irish, English and African habitants... I guess most of us would be facing deportation... LET'S DO IT!!!! Let's see how everything blows up in our own faces! BTW.- R.J. H1-Bs have DUAL INTENT which means they could be temporary or lead to permanent status. What part of "know all the story before you speak" IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND??? Posted by: Human Being on November 29, 2006 01:24 PM None of H1 B Holders are abusing the system. Posted by: Raj on November 29, 2006 01:26 PM I am a Human Resources professional with over 10 years in large corporations as well as some start-ups. My work has given me ample opportunities to observe the performance and work habits of foreign workers who have been granted visas and green cards. Here's what I've seen. 2. A significant number of H-1B and L-1 visa workers exhibit a high degree of loyalty to their home countries and cultures. I have also seen this trait among legal permanent residents with green cards. 3. Some H-1B and L-1 Visa workers and green card recipients have shown a perceptible lack of appreciation of, and in some cases, even contempt for American principles in casual conversations. This is disturbing to me since after all it's the American philosophy of a free and open society that allows citizens of other countries to emigrate and work here. 4. H-1B and L-1 Visa workers have a tendency to use corporate internet and e-mail servers quite often to communicate with their friends, family members, and other persons who reside in their countries of origin. This type of behavior is of considerable concern even in a commercial enterprise, and would be genuine cause for alarm if engaged in by individuals working on Department of Defense projects. The issues and behavior patterns that I have listed above, along with the tendency of the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agency to rubber stamp visa applications, is more than enough to make any reasonable person apprehensive about allowing any visa recipients easy access to sensitive business or government intelligence and data. Posted by: K-Light on November 29, 2006 01:28 PM All, Myself an H-1B worker now, who came here to pursue MS in computer science. I took up a job here on H-1B visa after I got my degree. To educate you all H-1B is a temporary work status given to work in the USA but it is a DUAL INTENT status either to return or apply for Green Card to settle in the USA. USA still strongly relies on Laws and this dream country still follows the law where it is giving Green Cards to the people who are on dual intent status and who have proved that they are not taking up US citizens jobs. It is true that there are lots of jobs out there they could not find US citizens to take up those jobs. The situation is different now compare to 4 years when there are lot of US citizens who did not have jobs. Posted by: vinabath on November 29, 2006 01:56 PM Reply to Fcannon's post: Posted by: mbecker on November 29, 2006 02:04 PM I am an proud american by birth. Let me ask my fellow americans one simple question : which one would we be better off with? 1. Illegal immigrants who snuck in and do not have any talents what-soever? or 2. well qualified people of foreign nations who can work in hi-tech fields and bring our economy up? Posted by: SimonC on November 29, 2006 02:07 PM To R.J. and all other ignorants Posted by: Crocker on November 29, 2006 02:09 PM Mr R.J. I guess we all understand temporary. Do you know something called Dual Intent?? Temporary but having the intention to stay here permanently and be a permanent resident. I guess you dont because you are so narrow minded and are concerned with you and your tiny little world. Grow up and quit whining about minor technicalities such as temporary. I am sure you dont give a damn about the immigration system or the laws but educate yourself before knitpicking. NK Posted by: NK on November 29, 2006 02:21 PM FCannon.Thank you for understanding our Mahabharata so well but in the process you must have forgot preaching in your own religion. We have not broken any rules or we are not burden to anyone. We are paying all the taxes as you pay and we all are paying all the social security taxes that we never use. We are not taking jobs from Americans but we are competing with them for jobs.If someone is not competitive enough then we are not responsible. All the lazy people will always look for reason to pin point so that they can cover their laziness. That is why we see people say that “H1B’s” have taken our jobs. Follow your religion preaching’s before doing so with other religion. Posted by: perm2gc on November 29, 2006 02:29 PM K-Light, thank you for contributing your thoughts here. We've needed more honest testimony from the corporate world. To those who defend the H1-B system here, I agree that our current system allows a certain numbers of visas under the WTO guidelines, and that's fine. But where are the Indian and Chinese companies eager to hire displaced Americans at comparable wages? And with U.S. tech unemployment levels higher than the general levels of unemployment, and many American tech workers now toiling at a fraction of former pay (I've met many such people), what basis is there for granting green cards? This would be an abuse of a system designed to fill temporary and unfilled needs. Also, as K-Light points out, foreign nationals from India and China have been investigated (and caught) stealing American technology secrets and passing them to foreign governments, so clearly, the issues of loyalty and national/ethnic boosterism need to be fully understood if Americans want sane immigration policy. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 02:30 PM mbecker, I indeed understand the concept of "fruit" of actions, and as I said, Indian nationals who return to India can apply their "experience" there. You have displayed a lack of understanding of my previous comments, which reflects your biased agenda here. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 02:33 PM To The HR Professional, You should not be eating your food because i am pretty sure at some point in time along the manufacturing process an immigrant was involved with its production. I think some of your comments are hypocritical. Unfortunately this country is full of people like you who niether understand the implications of free trade nor the benefits you enjoy. I wish your job is outsourced to some third world country so that you can whine some more. Posted by: NK on November 29, 2006 02:46 PM Some people here are confusing the concepts of "dual intent" and "entitlement." For their edification, here's the difference: when someone applies for and receives H1-B visa permission to work in the United States, this happens with the understanding that it's a temporary status subject to further applications, including the possible node of travel into the green card status. H1-B visa holders, you understand the concepts of nodes, probabilities and binomial trees, yes? In the structure of the H1-B system, the probability of movement from the node of H1-B term expiration/renewal onto the path of green card status is not, and never was, 100%. Yes? An entitlement, on the other hand, would presume a 100% probability of earning a green card; if such an entitlement existed and were not granted, Americans might understand the kind of "anger" FAIR cites in the title of this thread. The H1-B was never such an entitlement, however. What H1-B visa holders DO get as "fruit" of their labor includes pay, benefits and experience. If they've saved their money, worked hard and learned, they have much to take home with them when their terms expire. But that's all they get out of the deal; the same is true for all American citizens who hold jobs in this non-socialist business culture. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 03:05 PM Most of the H-1B people I have met are from 3rd world sewer nations. If these people are so brilliant and necessary , why are they not in their own homeland improving the broken-down system that caused the poverty? Our house is full now and America has done more than enough to ease the pain of overpopulation in other countries. I do not want to see America turn into another Mexico or India, it will not be good for anyone. America is not the world's toilet! Posted by: Fornax2 on November 29, 2006 03:18 PM Please, if you are here on a visa, understand that we are fully aware of the simple reality of supply and demand. The corporations that you work for enjoy a wage freeze. That's why you're here - for THEIR benefit. No one is accusing you of anything, but we ARE concerned about the future of our country if there is no end to the flood of labor that crowds this country. You may think we are seeing things wrong and I, at least, welcome your comments - but please stop presuming that somehow the law of supply and demand has been repealed. Obviously, the tighter the job market, the less the employer has to pay. Posted by: Bill Dexter on November 29, 2006 03:27 PM "We have not broken any rules or we are not burden to anyone. We are paying all the taxes as you pay and we all are paying all the social security taxes that we never use. We are not taking jobs from Americans but we are competing with them for jobs.If someone is not competitive enough then we are not responsible. All the lazy people will always look for reason to pin point so that they can cover their laziness." This charge of "laziness" is something I refute. Americans, in fact, are at the top of world charts of "hours per week worked." I also know from experience, and others have testified here, too, that Americans often are replaced by people on H1-B visas simply because the visa offers someone cheaper (in terms of base salary, although often not in terms of overall value) and more controllable, at least in terms of the indentured servant nature of the relationship. I don't refute that people on H1-B visas pay taxes, work hard and usually follow the law. In fact, I welcome the WTO guidelines and think it's reasonable to have ties with other countries; these ties should be reciprocated equally to Americans workers, but this is not the case. This thread is not about questioning whether people here legally on H1-B visas are operating under the H1-B law, an example of petitio principii. It's about the logjam in green card applications and the question of whether to grant further work status to foreign nationals when so many Americans cannot find tech jobs ... and also when foreign nationals pose a potential security risk. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 03:38 PM FCannon, Posted by: Amit on November 29, 2006 03:51 PM Many fine points by most all above. The point made by Dr. Tanton is that overpopulation hurts us all. Legal immigrants and native citizens all suffer because of criminal alien fence jumpers. Immigrants, H1-B workers, EVERYONE benefits from curbing the illegal addiction. Even business will benefit, although they are usually too short-sighted regarding profit vs. sustainability. Add your voice and your efforts towards fighting this problem, and you benefit, too. Posted by: Jeebie on November 29, 2006 04:02 PM Fcannon, You are trying to stir up Patriotic sentiments by scaring people about potential National Security Risks. You would become a good politician. Try running for Office. All free trade policies such as WTO have a social impact. While i sympathize with you and your whining please do not misguide the debate. We have all seen how things work in this country. You can look at the Sale of the IBM PC division to Lenovo from China. There were strong patriotic sentiments about this too but look what happened. The only thing that politically worked was the Dubai Ports deal which was taken care of by congress. The H1B issue is a very minor issue for the economy of this country and it may well be that they might abolish the program. I suggest that you do not stir up such sentiments and atleast try to appreciate the effort that these folks have made to get to the land of the immigrants. Also if there were a reciprocal arrangement where you were to be offered a job in India would you take it? I guess not, because you are so accustomed to the quality of life here and the protections you enjoy. If after all this you still fear competition, i suggest you grow a pair. NK. Posted by: NK on November 29, 2006 04:04 PM Hello to fornax2, why do you not like the h1b? I am h1b so please explain me this. Many h1b come here work hard. We make you country better just wait you see. Posted by: zhang on November 29, 2006 04:10 PM Why do people who are so ignorant about the system want to comment about it? As someone here said that "H1B's are cheaper" is strong example of it. Moreover people are so ignorant that any foreign national to work in sensitive areas has to undergo a security clearance. Also i did not mean laziness about the working hours but laziness in trying to learn new technologies and competition. The probability theory was so good that you might have forgotten that it applies to you also. In words of a great president “Remember, remember always that all of us, and you and I especially, are descended from immigrants and revolutionists” Posted by: perm2gc on November 29, 2006 04:26 PM NK, your no-class closing remark deserves no reply. As for whether I'd work in a developing country? I already have. Your assumption that I would not do this, then, was naive. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 04:42 PM Amit, the person "zhang" who posted here is an example of someone who holds an H1-B visa but lacks literacy (prose) skills; I gather you can judge this for yourself. As for your belief that Americans "find it difficult to get into Masters," it's difficult to find studies and data to explain why foreign nationals comprise such a large portion of tech graduate programs. However, much data exists to refute the outrageous assertion that Americans are inherently "stupid" and "lazy." In fact, you might agree that the mere presence of so many foreign nationals in the USA is a testimony to the relative quality of American universities and corporations. These U.S. institutions are, you might be reminded, overwhelmingly the fruits of American labor. Foreign nationals who fight for a chance to be here are complimenting the American nation and Americans, as well as pointing toward problems and/or a lack of better opportunities in home countries. Regarding the data, Amit, you ought to check out Ed Rubenstein's Dec. 12, 2005 article entitled "The Stupid American? Think again." It's available on vDare.com, one of the few places where such analysis can be found today. Mr. Rubenstein has published other articles on the subject of American ability, as well. Again, I'm glad to see so that many people crave, even demand, to be here. It's flattering. We're that good, I see. But I'm wondering why home countries do not, or cannot, produce the opportunities people seek by coming here, and as a U.S. citizen, I'm additionally concerned about the way foreign nationals on temporary visas develop such a virulent sense of anger and entitlement. Posted by: FCannon on November 29, 2006 05:17 PM I took a temporary job once. It lasted 6 months, not 9 years! The "legal immigrants" highly skilled job, could be given to an American citizen. Don't even give me that crap about how we don't have the trained workers in math, technology, etc., so we need to look elsewhere. Maybe more people would take up these fields if they knew their jobs wouldn't go to HB-1 workers first. Posted by: Born American on November 29, 2006 05:24 PM Amit posted: “If you go to any university.. anywhere in US.. and look at any class of Masters students.. more then 60% of those students are of foreign nationalities. Why? Simple because American students find it difficult to get into Masters.” This bogus argument would be funny if it weren’t so sad. The reason that American students don’t get into Masters programs, particularly in Sci/Tech/Engineering, is that they know that Americans in these fields are getting discriminated against in favor of cheap foreign workers thru H1b and offshore outsourcing. Another reason is the skyrocketing cost of a college education relative to return on investment. The American kids that do go into graduate school are generally going for business, law, and finance. So far, these fields have not been as hurt by global labor arbitrage as the Sci/Tech/Engineering fields have, though they may be in the near future. As an engineer in the computer industry for 20+ years, I advised my daughter to try to go into a field that has more salary growth and less chance of outsourcing. She finished high school with a 4.0 GPA and so far she is on pace to get on the Dean’s list in college this year. The smart kids will follow the money. If we continue to allow low cost workers in from other countries to fill these positions the money will never be there in the long run. To expect a student to spend the massive college money for a job that won't pay is stupid. How does the visa fit in? The foreign workers want in the US for the great life we have to offer. The execs say that if we don't let them in the employers will offshore more. This is a lie because not every job can be offshored. Also, offshoring will hurt those comapnies in the long run. When jobs are offshored, US workers, who are also consumers, can't continue to purchase goods and services to support any companies that outsource production offshore. So the corporate revenue will fall off unless overseas workers spend an equal amount on the goods and services produced by those companies that outsource over there. That won’t happen anytime soon due to the wage disparity between the US and third world countries. I have been in China and India where many of the jobs are outsourced to and I can tell you that most of that money will never come back to this country. The US trade deficit supports my observation. Companies aren't having a problem finding workers when they offer enough money. I have never seen a shortage of workers in well paying careers last very long. If you pay they will come!!! Ask a recent American MIT, Duke, Harvard or Stanford grad to take a job for $30-50k with just above inflation increases and the strong possibility that job will go away, and then see just how few you get in that line!!! The problem with this whole H1b thing is that it’s used to manipulate wage levels in selected industries for the benefit of a few without the consent of the citizenry as a whole. Posted by: Veteran IT Pro on November 29, 2006 05:43 PM Amit: Don't forget the law of supply and demand. Americans realize that they have a relative advantage in less technical fields where cultural/language familiarity and communication skills are more important. It is relatively easy for technical ability/skills to be transferred from one culture to another. That is why there are more foreigners in these fields as opposed to, say, the legal profession. A native-born American will find his/her abilities in technical fields undervalued as a result of the presence of large numbers of foreigners. I would guess that we started producing fewer native-born engineers, etc., right about when immigration started increasing 30 years ago or so. There were plenty of native-born engineers back in the 50s and 60s. You might claim these guys were substandard. That would suit your purposes, wouldn't it? America led the world technologically back then, but still I wouldn't surprised if someone like you would apply some twisted logic in a self-serving way to imply that this was just an accident of history and that Americans really aren't inherently capable in the technical fields. If your thought processes were not self-serving in the first place you wouldn't have overlooked the law of supply and demand as I pointed out. Posted by: Hal K on November 29, 2006 05:44 PM FCannon, In no sense I actually meant to say things like "Americans being lazy or Stupid". I guess you mistook my statement. Americans are very nice and hard-working poeple, there is no doubt about it. I agree to the fact that American universities are a result of not only US citizen's hard work, but also non-US citizen professors who teach there and also US residents (not Citizens only) who pay taxes to cover the expenses of those universities. I guess you would agree that American system, as it exists today is not only because of US born citizens, but because of everyone who has been paying taxes here. In my opinion, the quality of an university is not measured by who made it or whehter it holds an american name or so, but by the fact what kind of students it produces, irrespective of nationalities of those students. Wouldn't you agree here? I don't need to give examples here of the corporations who were founded by non-US citizens, I would hope you already know all of those. By your statement that you've worked in a third world country, I would assume you are a very open minded person and understand that world is liberalizing today and we all, US-residents, need to make sure we stay on top!!! One last note : English is just a language, so if someone does a mistake in prose or so, doesn't mean he is dumb. Can YOU speak all the languages of this world? Regards! Posted by: Amit on November 29, 2006 05:48 PM Amit wrote: “If you go to any university.. anywhere in US.. and look at any class of Masters students.. more then 60% of those students are of foreign nationalities. Why? Simple because American students find it difficult to get into Masters.” This bogus argument would be funny if it weren’t so sad. The reason that American students don’t get into Masters programs, particularly in Sci/Tech/Engineering, is that they know that Americans in these fields are getting discriminated against in favor of cheap foreign workers thru H1b and offshore outsourcing. Another reason is the skyrocketing cost of a college education relative to return on investment. The American kids that do go into graduate school are generally going for business, law, and finance. So far, these fields have not been as hurt by global labor arbitrage as the Sci/Tech/Engineering fields have, though they may be in the near future. As an engineer in the computer industry for 20+ years, I advised my daughter to try to go into a field that has more salary growth and less chance of offshoring. She finished high school with a 4.0 GPA and so far she is on pace to get on the Dean’s list in college this year. The smart kids will follow the money. If we continue to allow low cost workers in from other countries to fill these positions the money will never be there in the long run. To expect a student to spend the massive college money for a job that won't pay is stupid. How does the visa fit in? The foreign workers want in the US for the great life we have to offer. The execs say that if we don't let them in the employers will offshore more. This is a lie because not every job can be offshored. Also, offshoring will hurt them in the long run. When jobs are offshored, US workers, who are also consumers, can't continue to purchase goods and services to support any companies that outsource production offshore. So the corporate revenue will fall off unless overseas workers spend an equal amount on the goods and services produced by those companies that outsource over there. That won’t happen anytime soon due to the wage disparity between the US and third world countries. I have been in China and India where many of the jobs are outsourced to and I can tell you that most of that money will never come back to this country. The US trade deficit supports my observation. Companies aren't having a problem finding workers when they offer enough money. I have never seen a shortage of workers in well paying careers last very long. If you pay they will come!!! Ask an American MIT, Duke, Harvard or Stanford grad to take a job for $30-50k with just above inflation increases and the strong possibility that job will go away, and then see just how few you get in that line!!! The problem with this whole H1b thing is that it’s used to manipulate wage levels in selected industries for the benefit of a few without the consent of the citizenry as a whole. Posted by: Veteran IT Pro on November 29, 2006 05:51 PM A number of years ago I worked for an Indian immigrant. It turns out that he used his position to hire family members and bring them to work in the United States. That was when I started taking a skeptical look at immigration policy. Our immigration system is a free-for-all for every con artist in the world. Whether H1-B visa holder or illegal alien, the effect is the same. We are turning our wonderful country into a huge, overpopulated mess. Furthermore, the addition of large numbers of people from substantially-different cultures is a recipe for disaster. Immigrants have little to worry about. The "culture of immigration corruption" is in power. Social engineering and diversity are the order of the day. Growth is the answer to all of our problems. We live in a finite world, and there is nothing you or I can do to change that fact. Posted by: James on November 29, 2006 05:54 PM Amit wrote: "If you go to any university.. anywhere in US.. and look at any class of Masters students.. more then 60% of those students are of foreign nationalities. Why? Simple because American students find it difficult to get into Masters." This bogus argument would be funny if it weren't so sad. The reason that American students don't get into Masters programs, particularly in Sci/Tech/Engineering, is that they know that Americans in these fields are getting discriminated against in favor of cheap foreign workers thru H1b and offshore outsourcing. Another reason is the skyrocketing cost of a college education relative to return on investment. The American kids that do go into graduate school are generally going for business, law, and finance. So far, these fields have not been as hurt by global labor arbitrage as the Sci/Tech/Engineering fields have, though they may be in the near future. As an engineer in the computer industry for 20+ years, I advised my daughter to try to go into a field that has more salary growth and less chance of offshoring. She finished high school with a 4.0 GPA and so far she is on pace to get on the Dean's list in college this year. The smart kids will follow the money. If we continue to allow low cost workers in from other countries to fill these positions the money will never be there in the long run. To expect a student to spend the massive college money for a job that won't pay is stupid. How does the visa fit in? The foreign workers want in the US for the great life we have to offer. The execs say that if we don't let them in the employers will offshore more. This is a lie because not every job can be offshored. Also, offshoring will hurt them in the long run. When jobs are offshored, US workers, who are also consumers, can't continue to purchase goods and services to support any companies that outsource production offshore. So the corporate revenue will fall off unless overseas workers spend an equal amount on the goods and services produced by those companies that outsource over there. That won't happen anytime soon due to the wage disparity between the US and third world countries. I have been in China and India where many of the jobs are outsourced to and I can tell you that most of that money will never come back to this country. The US trade deficit supports my observation. Companies aren't having a problem finding workers when they offer enough money. I have never seen a shortage of workers in well paying careers last very long. If you pay they will come!!! Ask an American MIT, Duke, Harvard or Stanford grad to take a job for $30-50k with just above inflation increases and the strong possibility that job will go away, and then see just how few you get in that line!!! The problem with this whole H1b thing is that it's used to manipulate wage levels in selected industries for the benefit of a few without the consent of the citizenry as a whole. Posted by: Veteran IT Pro on November 29, 2006 06:00 PM And might I add here, FCannon, that may be we should summarize the views here in two categories : 1. Pure Patriotic view - Kick everyone out who is not born here OR Posted by: Amit on November 29, 2006 06:03 PM for all those that are here on a H-1B visa, you need to look at how many americans were fired before you got your job so you could get your job. America corporations are outsourcing jobs and laying people off. The number of jobs are decreasing every year and we have Americans who are qualified for these jobs. Why should someone from another nation especially one which will not let Americans take a job there be allowed to take jobs that should belong to American citizens. Posted by: Beckyal on November 29, 2006 06:15 PM If we search properly for right data, internet is full such data. Here is part of a recently published article Posted by: perm2gc on November 29, 2006 06:27 PM NK, you are right in saying that in the food and other industries, an immigrant might have done the job. However, if they are illegal, that doesn't make it right. Americans don't believe that bull our government and business espouse about how this country "needs" immigrants. We don't need them. They need us. What's more, they want us, badly. Free trade can survive with legal, American workers and technology. Jobs are outsourced because of uncontrolled corporate greed. The "immigrants" should go home. Posted by: Born American on November 29, 2006 06:33 PM FCannon, " But I'm wondering why home countries do not, or cannot, produce the opportunities people seek by coming here, and as a U.S. citizen, I'm additionally concerned about the way foreign nationals on temporary visas develop such a virulent sense of anger and entitlement. " The fact of the matter is fewer and fewer educated folks from the developing countries are coming here. But when we stay back and help our countries become prosperous by competing with an even kneel in the global market, you folks accuse India, China and Mexico of "stealing" your jobs through outsourcing. As if only folks like you have a god-given right to prosperity and all the so-called third world folks are always destined to remain an underclass. You are entitled to the fruits of a free market but not those folks from the "third world". As for your immense sense of anger at our "entitlement", you only betray your lack of English vocabulary skills : all we are asking for is a quick processing of our green card applications, not demanding a green card as a matter of right. Just like you are not entitled to a driver's license, but I would assume you are indeed entitled to your application with the DMV being processed in a reasonable time. I would assume you dont characterize a 9- year wait for a green card application as "reasonable", do you ? Posted by: dixiecafe on November 29, 2006 08:01 PM Guys, No body will get any thing except Blood pressure from such arguments Lets think good do good and progress for Better. Posted by: Lets not fight on November 29, 2006 10:47 PM H1-B is a dual intent visa??? You see, this is the ROOT of the problem with the H1-B/L-1 visa!!! It is advertised and sold to the public as a "TEMPORARY foreign worker" program!!!! In other words, the American people are being LIED TO!!! Notice the Washington Post article refers to the H1-B as a "TEMPORARY foreign worker" visa...I guess thats a lie then, right??? If H1-B was adverstised as a "dual intent" visa from day ONE, Joe/Jane Q. Public would NEVER buy such an argument...thats why they LIE and says its "TEMPORARY" WHAT IS SO RACIST ABOUT ASKING THAT WE NOT BE LIED TO?? Can you just explain that??? I'll tell you what's racist...DEMANDING to flood American labor markets with YOUR kind with NO REGARD as to the socio-economic effects on AMERICANS...THATS RACIST!! I mean, , lets displace ALL Americans with H1-Bs like Noshir Gowadia, I mean, never mind he now faces EXECUTION for selling B-2 bombeder secrets to China and other enemies; http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/786501.html Its "racist" NOT to replace ALL Americans, all the way down to the dog catcher, with these FOREIGNERS on "TEMPORARY foreign worker" visas...that are REALLY meant to be "Dual Intent" you see!! In fact, just inform those American soldiers, in Iraq and/or Afghanistan as we speak, that their REAL purpose is to protect a job market...for INDIANS and other foreigners!! Heck, I guess if and when the DRAFT is re-instated, we could just further expand the H1-B/L-1 "TEMPORARY foreign worker" program to replace all those Americans suddenly forced in the military by conscription!!! If any of these draftees complain...its just ignorant racism, right??? Posted by: R.J. on November 30, 2006 09:27 AM Veteran IT pro : Again, I myself is very loyal to this country where i've been living for last 9 years but still into this immigration mess. My options are always open but its just my company who wants to keep me here.. so sticking back! I don't expect anything else, but a fair immigration policy.. where instead of making us wait.. they tell us YES or NO so that we can plan accordingly. I am outta here! Posted by: Amit on November 30, 2006 10:40 AM R.J: Posted by: Amit on November 30, 2006 10:45 AM I’m an IT worker and I am fluent in database tools and technologies – SQL, ORACLE, SQL SERVER, COGNOS. The argument that Americans don’t keep their skills up to date is nothing but a LIE. Many rank and file H1Bs that I have met do exhibit hostility toward Americans, but the managers that are here under H1B are even worse. Two years ago I had the misfortune to work for a Pakistani who was here on an H1B visa. This man was blatantly snotty toward any Americans who worked in his group and only hired Americans when H1Bs were not available due to H1B cap restrictions. When H1Bs did become available, then this guy replaced the Americans with H1Bs as soon as possible. This Pakistani H1B even expressed the opinion that polygamy should be legalized in America! Would sane Americans really want to import more of these people? I don’t think so! Posted by: Roberta on November 30, 2006 10:59 AM "By your statement that you've worked in a third world country, I would assume you are a very open minded person and understand that world is liberalizing today" Yes, Amit, I'm a world citizen, but of course, first and by duty, I'm an American citizen with a U.S. passport who cannot, even if I wanted to, simply show up in another country and expect a work visa. I also am bound to pay U.S. taxes for life (and with that duty, I demand representation and the rights of citizenship, including free speech, which this government is good about granting ... cultural gatekeepers are another matter). In fact, because the U.S. is not a Commonwealth country, American citizens cannot easily hop around the globe for work. The United States is extraordinarily open and free, often in a unilateral way; despite our "self-rule" philosophy, the U.S. has recently done a poor job in the area of negotiating its way into "globalization," whereby middle and lower class citizens have been at the mercy of lobbyists, pundits, etc. That is changing, of course, but right now, Americans are up against the proverbial wall. In this debt-driven system, people who play by the rules take on extraordinary expenses and debt for an education, only to discover the rug can be pulled out from underneath them with impunity. Questions I've raised about whether to extend green cards have nothing to do with rancor for other nationalities; as I said, tech unemployment runs much higher than overall unemployment. Moreover, there's much disinformation out there on the question of what is, exactly, the U.S.A.? A nation of immigrants, where we cease to be the true U.S.A. if we don't have immigrants? I say no. Sure, we've had two, large waves of immigration, and that's all well and good, but this current wave is spawning all kinds of ill side effects, including the collapse of the middle class. Most Americans were born here, so they are, by definition, not immigrants. Many people who came here earlier did not arrive as immigrants. The most tragic example would be the slaves, but many people were here prior to 1787, including American Indian, English and, many people don't realize, Jewish. To the latter, George Washington extended a warm welcome. But what are we, if not a nation of immigrants? I say we're a nation of liberty, with a government of, by and for the people. We were founded in ideas of the European Enlightenment, and were largely a creation of French foreign policy. English citizens at the time who threw off the yoke of King George found inspiration in the Iroquois League and elsewhere, as I've said, and sadly, the Founding Fathers, despite drafting text to end slavery, failed to live up to their own ideals. The English correctly mocked the country for its hypocrisy in that regard. Amit, you do understand that this conflict in the U.S. now goes back to this earlier baggage of the country; beside the greedy business interests, some who have sought to radicalize the country have used collective guilt and Americans' natural goodwill to manipulate the American people, employing Napoleonic law in the process. To wit, according to these shapers of opinion, the U.S. is a boiling sea of hatred and intolerance waiting for the next demagogue—everyone is declared guilty, despite the existence of an abolitionist movement from Day One—and the only way we can prove ourselves "innocent" is to accept the massive displacement of ourselves. The more displacement we accept, the less guilty we are, according to this line of thinking. As I said earlier, I think the H1-B visa program is healthy insofar as we have good relations with other countries and peoples, but I've noted the lack of reciprocity, and also have noted a need for better security (this entails matching people more thoughtfully to jobs, rather than only doing background checks). Immigration, which FAIR advocates in vastly reduced numbers, is only sensible if it helps the country, and even the world. I submit that it helps neither. Al Gore's film An Inconvenient Truth highlighted the exponential nature of current world population and CO2 growth, and anyone who knows finance knows there are similar charts for U.S. debt. The way forward is not to encourage infinite, unchecked growth in a finite space, as Dr. Tanton points out. Accepting open borders is a kind of safety-valve policy, whereby corruption and overpopulation aboard can be managed by sending people to the U.S.A., where we simply are strained as it is. With a sane immigration policy, Americans could and should engage diplomatically with other nations, while also serving the needs and will of the American people who are, Amit, I'm sure you agree, human and entitled to representation, too. Posted by: FCannon on November 30, 2006 11:28 AM ****whew!!! and finally here is someone with whom one could've a healthy discussion on immigration!! To FCannon: 1. I am a member of good reputation in local libraries here where I do volunteery work on weekends. I feel libraries are a good source for education and those places can only survive if we, the residents, take a suuporitve role towrds them. (you would say NOT A BIG DEAL) 2. I, 2-3 days a week in the evenings, go to Florida Atlantic University, where I teach mathematics, Free of cost..again.. I DO NOT CHARGE ANYTHING FOR THIS, to undergrad students, to help them. (you would say NOT A BIG DEAL) 3. I've a good standing in my neighborhood where I've my own house and been paying real-estate taxes for over 6 years. In my neighborhood, I always help people during bad times.. if you were my neighbour you would realize it. (you would say NOT A BIG DEAL) 4. I am very loyal to my country of birth, but I am even more loyal to this beautiful place where I am raising my US citizen son. I am equally upset on out-sourcing cos I am also in the same bucket of the ones who get badly affected by out-sourcing. Having said this, what i think would be a good thing from US law-makers on this issue (i am talking ONLY about LEGAL IMMI here), that there should be a quick and open policy towards immigration. Like, they should be able to tell us within a certain time, whether we get residency.. YES or NO!!! Being held in a limbo for 10 years or so.. just to see whether you get one is simply absurd. I was born in a very remote rural place in india. (You and some other american people reading this have a right to make fun of me on this..) My dad was a school-teacher and farmer and mom a housemaker. I did my early schooling from a primary school where education was free cos we couldn't pay for it. I somehow, by the grace of GOD and my parents good guidance, slowly made my way thru to secondary and finally to the best engineering instituions in india.. Indian Institute of Technology (if you've ever heard of this, took a loan to do my degree there). After working in india for 2 years.. this US company, one of fortune 50 (Forbes list) offered me a job at 70K a year (which i don't thikn is "cheap-labor" according to Florida standards). Now the issue is, living in a third-world country, I never saw the deep politics affecting my personal life so much, rather all i did there was purely on the basis of my own talent or level. And now, being here in the best country on the face of the earth, I find it so hard that this politics is affecting me and my family so much. I am always ready to go back (however my wife is little reluctant) if US Govt. tells me that "NO.. you can not get a residency"!! Here is the problem i think : American people try to mix patriotism with common-sense. How many Americans would prefer to get the lawn mowed by an American for 200 dollars when a cheap mexican can do it for 10 dollars? Ford supposedly is true american.. look how it is doing today? In my opinion.. let the law-makers make that visa number whatever they want.. but speed the process up and make it fair!!! Again.. I don't "demand" a GC.. neither i feel i am "entitled to it.. its only the "WAIT" that is hurting me and my family! I've my entire life's earnings invested here.. and i am seeing illegals are getting more attention that poeple like I. And as you said, the policy of reciprocation.. I don't know how it would help US economy.. I mean how many poeple would like to go to India or other places in that part of the world to work? However, I heard recently that this company Infosys hired some 100 US students from US universities. I mostly agree with everything that you said in your post.. except your statement about "legal immigrants being a risk to safety". There are bad poeple everywhere... irrespective of citizenship! Posted by: Amit on November 30, 2006 12:11 PM Well, well now... Forget women- It would be nice if they could lease some reasoning capacity though. Mr(?) Becker states (contemptuously) that only "ignorant and uneducated persons" use the term "third world" in referring to the benighted nations which beset us. Posted by: Angus MacLeod on November 30, 2006 12:23 PM Illegal aliens are bad because they dont pay taxes .. legal aliens are bad because they work too hard for my comfort. Immigration itself was good during the days when my forefathers arrived here, but not now you see. What next ? Are you going to blame iraq and hurricane katrina on immigrants as well ? I am sick of the grand hypocrisy exhibited by these so called "patriots" ... Posted by: dixiecafe on November 30, 2006 12:23 PM The Washington Post sob story is just part of a larger effort on the part of the corporate media to justify the large increases in H-1B visas, green cards, and green card processing resources contained in the SKIL Act [S 2691, HR 5744] that is currently under consideration by the lame duck Congress. These programs are largely paid for with Americans tax dollars. BTW, Can any of the H-1B supporters on this blog please explain why the natural forces of domestic supply and demand are able to fill the jobs of police in dangerous neighborhoods, firefighters, attorneys, physicians, investment bankers, portfolio managers and venture capitalists but somehow those forces don’t work when it comes to science and technology jobs? Posted by: Vicky on November 30, 2006 12:36 PM Great comment, FCannon. Overpopulation and environmental degradation issues seem to be absent from many Stein Report articles. Our quality of life in this country depends on low population numbers. I have seen enough "ozone action days", water shortages, traffic gridlock, sprall development etc, to be convinced that adding more eaters to the system will be a slow and painful suicide. The current path we are on will not be good for the future generations in America. Posted by: Fornax2 on November 30, 2006 12:49 PM Amit, I sympathize with your situation, without a doubt. I've compared the "American chaos" of today, which includes our broken immigration system, with the "Russian chaos" of the late 19th century on the message board before. The vast majority of people—you and myself included—are getting tossed around as the United States goes through an unprecedented internal struggle. One thing I'll mention about the lawn mowing argument: I started working in a 110 degree kitchen at the age of 12, sometimes for 14 hour days. And I also mowed lawns for 20 bucks at the age of 14. The generation in power has become accustomed to having servants-on-call, but there are many American teenagers and less-fortunates who will do these jobs once the "bubble" mentality of this era pops and people see that life goes on without mass immigration to infinity. Anyway, when I talk about immigration from a leftist point of view, it also includes making sure that immigrants who have been caught up in this charade are treated with human dignity and respect ... not hallmarks of how illegal immigrants, in particular, are treated in the US today. I've mentioned OSHA standards, etc., here before, as anyone who reads this blog regularly knows. Posted by: FCannon on November 30, 2006 12:55 PM Angus MacLeod and Fornax2, thanks for your words, and likewise, I appreciate all your great posts. Posted by: FCannon on November 30, 2006 02:23 PM Vicky, You have a valid economic argument. Ever heard of utility maximization and indifference curves?? If not for the immigrants the US would not have had GOOGLE (Sergey Brin is an immigrant from Russia), Yahoo (founded by chinese immigrants), SUN (founded by an Indian) and i can go on and on. So you see by importing cheap labor US is creating jobs for the economy and since the supply of jobs increases, someone has to meet the demand. If US corporations cannot find demand that can meet the supply locally they will outsource. Is that a fair economic argument? Also can you substantiate your supply is met by demand locally by any significant data?? If you are indeed an economist can you quote some reliable sources that have the data on which you are basing your argument? NK Posted by: NK on November 30, 2006 03:10 PM Indian Arrested For Almond Theft Great, lets bring in more of THESE ppl!!! SACRAMENTO, California -- Two people were arrested early Monday after about $400,000 worth of stolen almonds was discovered in a Sacramento warehouse, a stash investigators say may be linked to a rash of nut thefts from orchards across California's Central Valley. Police arrested Sukhwinder Singh Grewal, 41, and Amrik Singh, 27. Grewal is the owner of Sona Spice Imports, a Sacramento-based importer and wholesaler of goods from India. http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/28/nut.theft.ap/index.html?eref=rss_us Posted by: John Wayne on November 30, 2006 03:17 PM Of course, it's a lie Roberta. But then, when you look at how Americans vote for the same traitors over and over and over--we must love lies. Think about becoming a politician Roberta, that's the new road to riches in the United States today. Posted by: Bobby on November 30, 2006 03:30 PM I see there seems to be quite a few H1-B/L1 visa holders replying to this article. I see the time stamps on them, 8AM, 10AM etc. How many of you H1-B visa holders are using your companies computers to argue your right to be here RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK? Posted by: USA_Gal on November 30, 2006 04:46 PM Mr. Wayne, Your frustration is unwarranted here. This is a discussion on "skilled labor" and i dont think spice importing qualifies as skilled labor and seems a tad bit unrelated to the ongoing discussion here. If you are so frustrated about these immigrants there are other forums in which you can participate. I am not the policeman for this board but your frustration i beleive is stemmed by the fact that you hate immigrants no matter what their classification is. NK. Posted by: NK on November 30, 2006 04:49 PM I see there seems to be quite a few H1-B/L1 visa holders replying to this article. I see the time stamps on them, 8AM, 10AM etc. How many of you H1-B visa holders are using your companies computers to argue your right to be here RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK?
Posted by: vaguy on November 30, 2006 06:19 PM Amit and NK, many excellent points, and well spoken. The Stein report is based on immigration reform. The story that started this thread was about Sanjay Mehta's frustration with the immigration application process. All on this site and all above agree on one thing. The current system is broken. I agree wholeheartedly with Amit. Applicants should be entitled to a prompt response. Whether yes or no, it is an unfair burden to wait so long. It is also an unfair burden to U.S. citizens and legal applicants alike to suffer a broken government, that will not prosecute criminal fence jumpers. We are all injured and threatened by government inaction. So, back to the primary issue. Immigration reform. Again, I agree with NK and Amit. Qualified and approved immigrants should be expedited into the country, but ONLY if the unqualified and the criminals, the illegals, are also expedited OUT of the country. If the system is to be reformed, who will decide how to reform it? Foreign nationals and illegal aliens, or U.S. citizens? Currently, Americans are fighting tooth and nail to stop the amnesty train and its caboose, the NAU. Amnesty is a slap in the face of all who are citizens, all who deserve it and all who have earned citizenship. The NAU, the final coffin nail in America's heart. We will not permit it. Most on this site believe the primary focus of immigration reform must be strong enforcement of existing law first. The tidal wave of illegal, illiterate, criminal, gang members is in the thousands EVERY DAY. At no time during WWII did axis or allies ever launch so many invaders at another nation. We are talking millions. Ten to twenty million. It is an invasion, a war against America, that our government ignores. Thousands have already been murdered and killed. Legal immigration issues, must unfortunately, take a back seat when there is so great a loss of life and land. I welcome legal immigrants. But no matter yours or Amit's qualifications, If our nation is destroyed in this war, where will you work? Help us fight the war and we will help you with your battle. I'll be first in line to assist you...after the war is over. Posted by: Jeebie on November 30, 2006 08:32 PM The comments by the pro-immigrant and pro-H-1B crowd here, are, for the most part, insulting and demanding. If you only realized that calling Americans "dumb" or "lazy", etc., you only increase the anti-H-1B sentiments. You know these accusations against Americans are not true, and, perhaps you don't realize it, but calling the people who built the world's technology and largest economy "lazy" goes to show how ignorant your stance on this is, which only makes your anti-American comments invalid. The H-1B visa is NOT a result of free market capitalism. Novel Prize Economist Milton Friedman said: "Yet there is no doubt that the (H-1B) program is a benefit to their employers, enabling them to get workers at a lower wage and to that extent is a subsidy." When a Nobel Prize Economist says that the H-1B program is a government subsidy for corporations, that ENDS ALL DISCUSSION. By such, Americans have an obligation to lower the cap and/or eliminate the H-1B subsidy. END OF DISCUSSION. Posted by: SoftwareGuy on November 30, 2006 09:09 PM NK, By focusing on a few high profile immigrant entrepreneurs and chief executives [most of whom came to the U.S. as children and who were educated at American universities], you conveniently ignore the fact that most of those hired on the H-1B visas and green cards are lower-paid programmers and engineers who are displacing American workers. Since we are on the subject of economics, the following are just a few of many economic studies which support my position. http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back1305.html http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/h1breport_2003.pdf?docID=261 http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html You say that high tech companies are looking overseas for workers because there is an inadequate supply of domestic talent to meet their needs. If that’s the case, why have there been so many layoffs in the high tech industries in the last few years? For example, Intel: 10,500 layoffs If these corporations are really suffering from such a domestic tech worker shortage, why are they purging their experienced U.S. tech workers? There's no shortage of native-born technology workers. The high tech executives, and the venture capitalists [and their lobbyists] are just clamoring for more cheap labor. BTW, I am not an economist, and never claimed to be. But then again, one does not need formal training in economics to see that the H-1B program is a fraudulent scheme to depress wages in the high tech industries. Posted by: Vicky on November 30, 2006 10:51 PM Originally the H-1 visa, which was created in 1952, mandated that the foreign worker be temporary. When the H-1B visa was created in 1990 that requirement was removed. That removal made the H-1B a dual-intent visa, in other words it allows the foreign worker to remain in the U.S. while applying for permanent residency (green card). The politicians used the term "temporary" as a smoke screen to lull the public into thinking they intended H-1Bs to go back home after their 3-6 years of indentured servitude. The dual-intent nature of H-1B was solidified when in 2002 President Bush pushed through the "7th Year Extension". This extension allows H-1Bs to get an extension to their H-1B visa at the end of their 6th year if they have applied for a green card. Now here is the sleight of hand Bush pulled - the H-1B can apply for 7th year extensions forever! As long as his green card is being processed he/she never has to leave the U.S., thanks to the 7th Year Extension. Keep informed with the latest news and analysis on H-1B and outsourcing by signing up for the free "Job Destruction Newsletter" by sending an email to this address with "SUBSCRIBE" in the subject heading: You can also find out more about the newsletter by going to the Job Destruction News Archive at: Posted by: Rob Sanchez on November 30, 2006 11:55 PM So many people are talking with patriotism here that America is for Americans only. But in the argument you are forgetting the basic principle of the great nation. America is land of immigrants. We are not new immigrants, it was started in 1620 at Plymouth, Mass.They worked hard same as natives to build a great nation whose fruits are being enjoyed by me, you and others. How much immigrants have contributed before is the history that you might have read. If you are going to read the history, you might be one among us. Companies don’t take us that we are cheap but based on the knowledge we have. H1B’s make same amount of money as citizen. It’s a myth that H1B’s are cheap and take American jobs. I work for a fortune 100 company where 3% are H1B’s and rest are citizens. In the world of competition nothing is guaranteed for a life time and if anyone is thinking so, it is time to wake up.
2. Immigrants with college degrees will pay $198,000 more in taxes during their lifetime than they collect in government services. 3. In 1997, the U.S. reaped a $50 billion surplus from taxes paid by immigrants to all levels of government.
5. The total net benefit (taxes paid over benefits received) to the Social Security system if current levels of immigration remain constant is nearly $500 billion for the 1998-2022 period and nearly $2.0 trillion through 2072.
7. Immigrants who become U.S. citizens typically pay more in taxes than native-born Americans. Federal taxes paid by families with a naturalized citizen average $6,580 per year compared with $5,070 for U.S.-born-only families. 8. Businesses founded by immigrants are a source of substantial economic and fiscal gain for U.S. citizens. 9. The average immigrant contributes about $25,000 to local and state governments. Posted by: perm2gc on December 1, 2006 12:09 AM NK: reporting crimes is not an act of "hate." I rather enjoyed (at least, valued) that article linked/copied by "John Wayne" and think it provides needed balance to the issues discussed, largely indulgent of and indulgently used by "immigrants." There is nothing inherently heroic or good (or bad) about "immigrants." That entire line of rationalization (that to be an immigrant is to be "good" -- implying there's an evaluation toward the positive there, when, in fact, there's nothing of merit or lack of merit assigned to the term, nor the behavior) should not remain unchallenged and "John Wayne" just levelled the issue with that link, that story. The problems we see today in the U.S. are largely related to unwelcome overpopulation. Certain business demands certain "workers" from wherever and that is always motivated by those same demands made to the detriment of existing labor (people already in the U.S.). These also aren't a Liberal or Conservative issue -- population and resource management -- inherently, although both are used by poltiicians and poltical movements every day, but, the fact is, many people don't see anything good about an ever-expanding population, particularly exponentially, in our nation. If that means a moratorium on immigration for a while, then so be it, but there will be nothing "new" or of challenge (or very little of it, anyway) remaining in the U.S. for ANYone if we continue to allow many million more people into the nation every year who then either refuse to leave after their "temporary" work or else remain here (legally or illegally as immigrants) by other means, by other motives. There's no sense, none at all, in allowing the U.S. to become the very conditional area that most "immigrants" fight to depart from today. If India, the Middle East, Afghanistan, Africa, China, South and Central America were such great and resourceful places, why, then, are their populations seeking to leave and so unhappy about local opportunities? The answer to that is obvious. There's no goal written in stone anywhere that makes it imperative for the U.S. to accommodate the world's needs. And, the "third world" is a well respected, well used and highly recognizable expression that describes certain areas of our globe that are beset with certain, shared conditions: most of those poor overall public health and living conditions, inability to provide basic food and employment for citizens/residents and outofcontrol population (that is not sustained by regional resources). Fix those conditions in your own nations and stop insisting the U.S. degenerate to recreate the conditions from elsewhere. I believe that's the objection to ongoing, expanding immigration of ALL types that most U.S. citizens feel. Some immigration is useful, obviously, but it's not an imperative. And, any nation is entitled to set it's own policies. It may (and usually does) "offend" and even irritate some others, but...the ultimate disagreement is war between nations in disagreement, but, a moratorium on immigration would be welcome in the U.S. by many ciitzens, if for the basic issues of quality of life here, which has been drastically reduced in the past thirty years by mostly people from other nations using the U.S. without regard for what it means to be a citizen, or intention to become one. There is more to being a citizen in the U.S. than economics, is the point. Posted by: -S- on December 1, 2006 02:15 AM I also would like to state the (very) obvious and that is that the "worker" Visas are a highly exploited method used year in and year out by millions of people from all over the world for purposes of (1.) arriving in the U.S. "legally" and (2.) remaining in the U.S. illegally afterward. Let's not joke around about this, the motivation behind the popularity of the worker Visas is that they enable a large number of people to remain in the U.S. who are not legal after their Visas expire. That's not by accident or forgetfulness but by design and intention by many who abuse the worker Visa programs. Posted by: -S- on December 1, 2006 02:21 AM NK, I hate to burst your bubble here, but you are spreading some economic myths about foreign scientists, engineers and entrepreneurs. The foreign-born entrepreneurs that you mention all came over as children under 10 years of age. They were raised in AMERICA and educated in the AMERICAN school system. They are exceptional cases and not representative of what we would experience if we dramatically raise the number of H-1B visas or green cards issued in this country. Why should we open up our already overcrowded society to hundreds of thousands or millions more immigrants, of any education level, just on the 0.001% chance that we may get a FEW really innovative foreigners? Those who are new to the H-1B issue should know that shortly after the yearly H-1B cap was raised to 195,000 for a three year period starting in the year 2000, hundreds of thousands of American lives and careers were devastated. Now you want to do it again? Corporations have been consistently hiring H-1B engineers to replace engineers who are U.S. citizens. A recent GAO report on the H-1B program revealed that it is rife with this type of abuse. The report also raised many homeland security issues. Corporations prefer H-1B engineers to American engineers due to a variety of reasons. It is practically impossible for H-1B holders to leave a job voluntarily and go to work for another company for better pay and working conditions. If they get laid off or fired, they and their family usually must return to their home country. So employers can make unreasonable requests such as mandatory 20-hour per week unpaid overtime. The H-1B holders fear any sort of negative discourse with the employer, so they comply with any working conditions. This essentially makes them indentured servants. For your information, indentured servants are NOT free to start companies such as Google, Sun, and Yahoo. In universities today, engineering is one of the least preferred majors. Mathematically and scientifically proficient American students know better than to enter engineering, mathematics, computer science or physics. Most students steer clear of those majors because of American job losses due to cheap foreign labor. In addition, tech corporations are not even aggressively recruiting American graduates anymore. How can we ask American children to study math and science when we know that Engineering and Science are not good professions to be in? The H-1B program is NOT about bringing in the best and the brightest. Most of the new H-1B engineers are fresh out of college with lower skill levels than the average American intern or coop student. Of course, their communication skills are significantly less than their American counterparts. Their pay is always below the average pay scale. The H-1B program is not about supply and demand as you state, NK. It is about intentionally creating an OVERSUPPLY of low wage, easily intimidated and controlled workers and you know it. NK, it’s obvious from your posts that you somehow profit from the use of H-1B visas. Would you mind sharing with us just how you profit from this cheap labor scam? Are you an H-1B visa holder who’s trying to escape a third world hell hole? Or perhaps you are an immigration lawyer? Or are you an executive whose bonuses depend on cutting labor costs? Why don’t you try being honest for a change? Posted by: Craig on December 1, 2006 08:37 AM As a resident of the San Francisco Bay Area, I am acutely aware of the socio economic dislocation caused by the H1-B/L-1 visa scam!! First, some backround; Due to the fact there is a "shortage" of postal workers, almost 99% of ALL postal workers I encounter are Asian (East or South). My local letter carrier is ALWAYS an Asian who speaks little English, I OFTEN get mail addressed to other ppl, when I or my neighbors complain, we are chewed out as "racists" by the letter carriers...I get the SAME response when I go to the postal annex where the mail is sorted...you see, its "racist" to "whine" about your mail being sent to the wrong addresses, causing delays, and getting mail addressed to others. Though I was born and raised in the Los Angeles area, I have been traveling to the SF Bay Area since I can remember. In that time, suburban towns, like Fremont and Milpitas, have gone from being almost entirely native born Americans to be MAJORITY foreigners... Store signs are often in incomprehensible foreign languages EXCLUSIVELY!!! Trips to the supermarket seem like excursions to foreign countries. Foreigners wearing native garb move about chattering in their incomprehensible languages. The worst part, and I am serious...not just being "racist" are the disgusting aromas emanating from many of the "foods" these ppl prepare...I KID YOU NOT!! Next door to me live 6 Chinese immigrants...whenever I encounter them...they look at me as if I belong in a ZOO!!! Housing costs have skyrocketed...simply put...there is NO WAY for the housing stock to keep pace with the HORDES of immigrants streaming into the region....hence....prices MUST rise. Exactly how this would benefit Americans on a NATIONAL scale is hard to fathom...but also probably a "racist" question anyway... Now, since I graduated from UCLA with a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering; I have had a birds eye view of the H1-B visa scam!! For starters. the H1-B was sold to Americans as a "TEMPORARY foreign worker" visa...only now we are informed its REALLY "dual intent"...in other words...they straight out LIED!! Thus, I suppose the L-1 "intra-company transfer" visa is also not REALLY what its adverstised, I suppose the L-1 "intra-company visa" is REALLY "dual intent" as well, right?? This should be kept in mind when debate begins anew regarding Bushs "guest worker" program proposal...it will turn out these are not "GUESTS" at all...but that visa too is REALLY "dual intent" you see!!! In the last 5 years, even as tech companies have been laying off scores of Americans, they still clamor for ever larger numbers of foreigners on H1-B/L-1 visas...though I suppose EE Times magazine is just being "racist" then when they point out the downward drag on salaries this has; http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=189401976 In fact, the government of India is now DEMANDING 195,000 H1-Bs for Indians ALONE! http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1151031.cms Now, since the L-1 "intra-company visa" is REALLY "dual intent"...what we have are foreign governments and companies making US IMMIGRATION decisions!!! AND YOU THOUGHT WE WERE A SOVEREIGN NATION! The effect of H1-B/L-1 on Americans is that it discourages investing the time and energy required to obtain technical degrees...but I guess that the intent!! It doesn't matter that foreigners like Noshir Gowadia sell classified MILITARY technology to enemy nations! http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/786501.html Or others from China act on behalf of their homeland; http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/28/national/main551346.shtml They are to be given PREFERENCE over Americans in the technical workplace...anything less is "racist" As such, I have already advised my younger siblings to pursue educational paths in non technical fields!! My question to the H1-B defenders is; WHY IS IT NOT RACIST TO DEMAND EVER LARGER HORDES OF H1-B/L-1 VISAS FOR YOUR KIND, WITH NO REGARD AS TO THE SOCIO ECONOMIC EFFECTS ON AMERICAN FAMILIES?? Indians simply do NOT care what the effects are on Americans...especially black and Latino Americans who they feel superior to...as they OFTEN inform me... I wish H1-B/L-1 would be abolished and programs started to motivate American kids to pursue technical education started. Program like scholarships, internships, etc. But, I guess that too is probably a "racist" thought...lest the TSUNAMI of Indians and Chinese be in any way inhibited!!! After all, we must prepare for China and India dominance... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061126/bs_afp/australiachinaindiaeconomygrowth_061126031659 Of course, the best way to do that is to simply REPLACE the American ppl with ...Indians and Chinese...anything less would be....RACIST!!! Posted by: RJ on December 1, 2006 09:08 AM Most of the H-1b visa holders that are caught in green card limbo will never be issued a green card. The system is intentionally designed to induce long delays in the green card process. The green card is just a false promise that employers use to get the visa holder to work long hours for lower pay than Americans. Several years ago I worked in the IT department at a major wireless carrier, you know, the one that “never stops working for you”. My cube mate was a contract programmer from Viet Nam on H-1b. He wasn’t brilliant by any stretch but he did work very long hours because the company had sponsored him for a green card. He actually was convinced he was going to get that green card and then become a permanent resident. Well, one Friday his manger called him in and terminated his contract prior to walking him out the door. The next Tuesday a new H-1b from India came on to take up the work that the programmer from Viet Nam had been doing. I later found out that the H-1b from India had been sponsored for a green card also. The transition wasn’t smooth at all but higher-ups at the company didn’t care as all they were interested in was having a revolving door of cheap labor. You see, the labor cost savings that employers get from using H-1b labor far outweighs the cost of the H-1b and green card processing fees. This, my friends, is a racket. I now work as a project lead at a small company that develops artificial intelligence and natural language processing software for the publishing industry. We actually tried using a few H-1b workers last year but even though they had masters degrees they failed in their tasks and had to be fired. The H-1b workers I have seen are mostly good for repetitive and tedious tasks, but can not handle the really sophisticated programming, algorithms or intensive knowledge-based work that our projects require. Based on my experience, I would have to say that the “best and brightest” argument for bringing in H-1b workers is just a lot of hype. The H-1b program is actually stifling innovation in this country and should be deleted. Posted by: Project Lead on December 1, 2006 09:41 AM Guys, (Craig, Vicky et al) You are walking a hypocritical line here. You need children of immigrants but you dont ned immigrants who can produce entrepreneur children. What is the real problem here? You guys want to have a monopoly in the job market and want to create an irreplacable position that provides you cash flow for your entire lives and helps improve your quality of life. You all fear competition and job losses. Regarding the statistics provided: All of you provide big numbers like Sun had 10500 layoffs etc. What kind of jobs were these?? Were they software engineering jobs? How many jobs were lost due to H1B's? Are all the jobs losses due to H1B visas?? The idea in economics is that people who are laid off (mostly white collar workers) will be absorbed elsewhere in the economy and they will not depress wages and in fact raise the wages. I can quote the BLS statistics which shows that wages were never depressed in the IT/Software field in the past 4 years (The dot com bubble burst is an exception during which wages did go down). You guys have a very weak case. This argument can go on for ever. Since none of you are politicians here but can influence policy in washington do your part and petition congress to work in your favor. For your information i am neither an executive nor a H1B holder and none of the things you mentioned. I am someone who sympathizes with immigrants. I like to side with the underdog once in a while. I find it unproductive to argue with people who are driven by ideology and preconceived notions about the way things have to be and want their way in every other argument or issue. NK. Posted by: NK on December 1, 2006 12:09 PM NK, do you think there is a limit to how many people would be good for this country? If so, what might that number be? What would happen after that number is reached? If not, then what is different here than the densely populated countries from which people escape by coming here? Posted by: Bill Dexter on December 1, 2006 03:46 PM I am so sick of these people calling "Americans" racist because we demand to know who you are,where you are,and why the Hell you are in "OUR" Country. Intending to sound Politically incorrect, I say send all of their Asses packing H-1Bs,Illegals and everyone else who comes here thinking that The USA owes them something. Most of these greedy and ungrateful Bastards would not have a Pot to even Piss in if it were not from the Grace and Mercy of God, and America. the next time some Immigrant or the like, accuses you of being Racist, Tell them, "Damn Straight" now get the Hell out of my Country. Posted by: Teresa on December 1, 2006 06:41 PM Bill, I do think limits and immigration quotas make sense. There are already established limits for Employer sponsored permanent residents (140K) per year. This is a drop in the bucket compared to those who migrate through family relationships and illegally. The first solution for the population problem is to discourage people from immigrating illegally. The other things that need to be done are Regarding the answer to your question: There are limits on the number of people but there is no enforcement. The Immigration service has been an icon of ineffeciency and mismanagement. In addition they are underfunded on purpose and are supposed to manage their operations by the revenues they derive. If this continues people will keep coming into this country without any fear of being prosecuted and eventually there will be no difference between the US and other densely populated countries. Posted by: NK on December 1, 2006 08:01 PM “America is land of immigrants. We are not new immigrants, it was started in 1620 at Plymouth, Mass.”
Posted by: Michelle on December 2, 2006 02:03 PM Bill, FYI - Read the story: Posted by: Human Being on December 2, 2006 04:38 PM Funny how the Globalists are also Nationalists, Here's a resume objective, much like the H1B except tailored for the strengths of the displaced/underemployed American Engineer. Objective: What do you suppose would happen to our economy if the Chinese supplemented the incomes of domestic engineers so they could compete with third-world guestworkers? (Housing costs go up, yet wages stay flat.) Perhaps foreign held college loans, mortgages and salary subsidies will one-day ensure that U.S. citizens are compromised even before they obtain a gvt. security clearance?
Posted by: Weaver on December 3, 2006 12:03 PM NK, I cannot speak for the other citizens here. Personally, I have always advocated for a sensible way for a small number of truly innovative and highly skilled immigrants to enter the U.S. (on a highly competitive basis) and move about freely in the job market once they are here. This would eliminate the indentured servitude aspect of the current H-1B program. Anyone who has read my posts knows this. I think what most opponents of H-1B here object to is the arbitrary manner in which the high tech executives and their lobbyists pay off the lawmakers (thru campaign contributions and other forms of compensation) to use the current H-1B regulations to glut the labor market in certain industries with large numbers of indentured servants who are willing to work for far less pay (than Americans) for the chance to come to America. All this has occurred without the consent of the citizens who the lawmakers are supposed to represent. This violates a core principle (representative government) of the U.S. Constitution. As I see it, there are two fundamental problems with the H-1B program: 1) It uses tax dollars to increase the supply of labor in certain industries, without consent of the taxpayers, in order to create inflated profits and bonuses (thru depressed wages) for corporate executives. Not coincidentally, the executives who profit from H-1B have also paid large legalized bribes to the lawmakers in Congress to create and expand this program. 2) After the foreign workers enter the U.S. and go to work for their visa sponsor, they are, by and large, unable to change jobs for better pay and working conditions. This violates one of the main principles (free movement of labor) of free market capitalism. Like the illegal alien invasion, the H-1B program is just another example of how the distinctly American principles of constitutionalism and capitalism have been replaced with corporatism and crony capitalism. As I see it, the H-1B issue boils down to a single question. In the 21st century, is America still a sovereign nation (of, by, and for the people) as the founding fathers envisioned, or has it devolved into a large market place that exists only and simply for the benefit of corporate executives and institutional investors? Posted by: HP on December 4, 2006 08:05 AM Notice how NK talks about BLS statistics that could be quoted and then doesn't actually provide a link to them? At least the anti H-1B bloggers have provided links to studies showing wage suppression and stagnation in the high tech industries. Or how about the way that he/she claims to support the disadvantaged but just happens to support a visa program which enriches those who are already very wealthy? By the way NK, your prevailing wage argument is bogus, as Dr. Norman Matloff has shown that the prevailing wage calculation can and is often manipulated to something far below what a natural market wage would be. Matloff is the best source of objective information on H-1B, and his research is available at: http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.html Enforcement of the H-1B regulations are NOT the answer to the problem, because in the case of H-1B the law itself is a sham! NK, you are fraudulent and hypocritical, just like the H-1B program itself and the politicians and executives who also support it. Posted by: Steph on December 4, 2006 10:37 AM How many new immigrants will we need when THEY retire? Human Being, if you mean to imply that these 3.5 new immigrants a year won't collect S.S. in their turn, then say so. If they will collect, won't that only make the problem that much worse? Posted by: Bill Dexter on December 4, 2006 11:52 AM Bill, I didn't say we needed 3.5 M new immigrants, Ben Bernanke did (he is the chairman of the Federal Reserve) and he is an economist with a Ph.D. If there are a lot more people like you in the future, I am sure you will figure out a way to tap into their S.S. and deport them when they are ready to retire. Posted by: Human Being on December 4, 2006 01:31 PM Steph, Your comments are obnoxious and you lack the decency of conducting the debate in a civilized manner. You are a proponent of Norm's theories. Norm is a grumpy old man who needs whose job exists today because of the Indian and Chinese students who he teaches at the University of California Davis. While i respect his views on the matter i disagree with what he says. He aint an economist. I will point you to this interesting study about globalization. Read this and enlighten yourself a bit and try to conduct the debate in a civilized manner. I will also provide you with the BLS studies. I have also published a paper in this matter using economic data from organizations such as BLS and AEA. One more thing: One can write several reports and papers using several data sources. Some sources are credible and some are pulled right from thin air. It all depends on who one is trying to sway. There are two sides to every story. NK http://www.acm.org/globalizationreport Posted by: NK on December 4, 2006 04:07 PM I am a H1B holder and i am still waiting for my GC for the past for 8 yrs. I would request american politicians to pass a law to stop all GC processing from now on and terminate the so called H1B subsidy, then send all the immigrant GC holder/recent citizens and their children to their respective home countries. After having done that, you will have plenty of vacancies in your schools and companies which you can fill up. We, on our part, will ask the US companies (some of the rotten ones like coca cola, pepsi, mcdonalds which are just garbage suppliers in my opinion causing heath havoc) to leave our countries. This is the ONLY solution to immigration problem. Froget the crap about globalization and all the stupid WTO's mumbo jumbo. WTO should be dis mantled as it serves only in the interests of the Rich Farmers of the Rich countries and lets poor farmers of third world countries to commit suicides. Then we will have ever lasting peace. As a reminder, the so called third world countries' (India and China) GDP used to be 50% of world GDP till 1750 until the illegal invaders (as opposed to illegal immigrants from east) from west conquered and plundered the countries, took away all the wealth. Now we have to get back the lost wealth by working hard in our own countries. Posted by: GV on December 4, 2006 07:06 PM Okay, you didn't say it, but you did give it as reason for bringing more people in. Isn't that your point? If it is, then please answer the question. If it is not, then why did you bring it up? Posted by: Bill Dexter on December 5, 2006 09:36 AM No. We are not mexicans coming to invade your land. They come here to take back their land. Indians come here for only 2 reasons. 1. To get good education. USA has the best universities compared to anywhere in the world. 2. To get a good life without day to day hassles like free of corruption. The reason i brought the issue is, we need to change the country so that the above 2 things can be made available in the country itself. If there is legislation to stop new people coming, i support it. In the past few yrs, after dot com bust, many bright folks moved to the country setting up excellent ventures. Now we have enough oppurtunities there which we couldn;t even have imagined few years back. We have missed industrial revolution and embraced socialism, 2 reasons for the poverty and backwardness in our country. We don't want to miss any further oppurtunites in IT. Posted by: GV on December 5, 2006 12:59 PM I brought it up to bring some civilized data from a reputable and educated source. Someone with a Ph.D., someone who knows what the country needs. Someone who CARES about America. Someone who is NOT blindfolded by hate and knows about economics. That's all! Posted by: Human Being on December 5, 2006 01:38 PM Okay. Someone with a PhD and cares about America brought it up. 'It' being that we will need 3.5 new immigrants a year to replace retiring Americans paying into S.S. I asked a question. That being - how many new immigrants will we need to fund S.S. when THEY retire? You still didn't address this point. People working now are paying for the people who are already retired now. When soon many more people retire, we will need a lot more money to pay them IF things are to continue the way they are. IF we need evermore money to pay more S.S., isn't bringing evermore people into the system only going to continue the problem? This is a simple concept. If more retirements create a need for more money and the solution is more people who themselves will retire, isn't it just a self-perpetuating problem? Can't you even tell me what you think about that? Posted by: Bill Dexter on December 5, 2006 04:16 PM NK, you wrote: “You are walking a hypocritical line here. You need children of immigrants but you dont need immigrants who can produce entrepreneur children.” NK, you just made a basic blunder by attributing a statement to me that I never made. I never said that we don’t need any bright immigrants or their children. I said that it was foolish to glut the labor market in certain industries just because there is a very small chance that we can get some really bright immigrants like the ones you describe. Remember, very few people of any nation – including America – are truly innovative. Personally, I like the concept expressed by HP. That is, we should encourage a few really exceptional immigrants to come here and allow them free movement in the job market as long as they don’t break our laws. When it comes to immigration, we need to start stressing quality over quantity. What do you think about that, NK? One other thing, NK. You have a very weak case on this issue to begin with, and you are certainly not going to score any points in this debate by playing verbal sleight of hand games. OK, NK? Posted by: Craig on December 5, 2006 04:50 PM Bill, It is quite simple. Although it goes against your believes, the population growth has slowed down to the point where we need to make up for those retiring. http://pop.org/main.cfm?id=303&r1=15.00&r2=1.00&r3=0.50&r4=0.00&level=3&eid=1068 Just as many European countries and even Australia, the more educated people are the less children they have to the point where some elect to have none. If your own citizens cannot give you a healthy growth, you have to make up for it somehow (read immigration), otherwise you end with a country of old people with little young people to keep the system going. What DO YOU propose? I think (by the way you post) you'd propose that we kill SS, deport everyone including citizens ("anchor babies") along with elder folks who wouldn't be able to survive without SS and isolate the country from everyone, even tourists (they may overstay their visas). Create an alternate way of food (synthetic) so that it can be produced in a lab without farmers so that we subsist on non-immigrant/imported goods. Keep all innovative foreign talent abroad (where they belong) even if they can one day take the lead (it will make us less appealing for people to come here and definitely less competitive). Let's just throw the baby with the water! BTW.- Do you also have a Ph.D.? You seem so ready to take on someone like Bernanke, your credentials must be outstanding! Posted by: Human Being on December 5, 2006 09:08 PM The H1Bs that I work with are snotty and have anti-American attitudes, and the ones that I have seen who actually get green cards are even more so. It would suit me just fine if all H1B and green card programs were stopped immediately, and these unwanted “guests” all go home. And if China, India and other countries want to expel US-based companies that set up shop in their lands that’s fine with me also. HEY ALL YOU H1B INVADERS! THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NEVER REQUESTED YOUR PRESENCE HERE! STOP WHINING AND JUST LEAVE! Posted by: Ticked Off on December 6, 2006 09:03 AM Boy, you sure jump from topic to topic without actually saying anything. "What do you propose?" Since we were addressing S.S., what I propose is honesty. S.S. borrows from the future. No matter what we decide to do, we need to stop lying about the fact that S.S. simply borrows from the future. We can't even talk about it until we stop lying about it. After that, I would be willing to listen to any proposal. Yes, I would deport anchor babies. They are not Americans. We can agree to disagree on the constitution, but I would deport them and fine the countries they came from for the cost they incurred while in violation of my country's laws. This fine can be a reduction in the money we send those countries. My main reason for doing this would be to STOP people from even trying to drop anchor babies in my country. Yes, Human Being, I am aware of how hateful you find this to be. Please understand how hateful I find it that my country is unlawfully subjected to this invasion. I have attended several protests and counter-protests where "undocumented immigrants" were demanding 'rights'. The the unvarnished hatred of their screaming and spitting at us was beyond anything I had ever seen. You see, Human Being, the great liberal lie of this country is that only white people are racists. That is what you choose to believe. I know differently. I do not want to be outnumbered in my own country by people who hate me because of my race. It's really that simple. Posted by: Bill Dexter on December 6, 2006 12:05 PM |
United States on a temporary work visa in 1997, hoping to build a glittering career in the fast-moving information technology sector. But nine years later his application for a green card remains snarled up in a bureaucratic logjam, and he looks with frustration at the strides made by illegal immigrants who he says simply jumped the fence from Mexico," Reuters writes. "'The long wait throws high-skilled professional immigrants' lives in limbo,' said Aman Kapoor, the founder and president of Immigration Voice, a national grassroots organization representing skilled immigrants across the United States. 'They are not able to move to better job opportunities in the prime period of their career, which is very professionally frustrating for them,' said Kapoor, an Indian national who works as a programmer analyst at Florida State University."